Project-based Learning in Computer Science with Justin Cannady
In this interview with Justin Cannady, we discuss project-based learning in CS, encouraging debugging and working through failure as students and teachers, considerations for integrating CS, lessons learned working on NMSI’s CS AlignEd, and much more.
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Welcome back to another episode of the
CSK8 podcast my name is Jared o Leary
in this week's episode I'm interviewing
Justin Cannady in our discussion we talk
about project-based learning in computer
science
encouraging debugging and working
through failure both as students and
teachers considerations for integrating
CS some of the lessons that Justin
learned working on nem GCSE aligned
curriculum and professional development
and many more topics as always you can
find the show notes by clicking on the
link in the description that is found in
the app you're listening to this on or
by visiting jared O'Leary com
where there's nothing for sale or
anything like that with all that being
said if we're now going to begin with
Justin introducing himself my name is
Justin Cannady and I'm the senior
program design manager of computer
science for NIMS II which is National
math and science initiative
I look at kindergarten through 12th
grade computer science teacher
professional development and student
curriculum materials for the teachers
that we support before that I worked
with you teach computer science and did
their AP computer science principles
curriculum development and teacher
professional development I am a grad
student currently working on my
doctorate in Business Administration
which there's a long story there but not
enough time to get into and I have two
daughters
I hope they will venture into STEM in
some way and I live in Birmingham
Alabama can you tell me the story of how
you got into CS education yes
so I majored in mathematics in college
and did a minor in computer science just
because the faculty there said they
paired well and I said okay that's fine
and then didn't really use the computer
science part until about five or six
years ago when dr. Geoff gray at the
University of Alabama wrote agree on
four CS for Alabama in which the aim of
the grant was to increase the amount of
computer science teachers in Alabama by
approximately 50 teachers and so I was
brought in on Phase two of the grant and
then we were being instructed or taught
how to teach ap computer science
principles but it was before the AP
computer science principles exam that's
where I got my start began teaching
computer science principles at Homewood
high school for a couple years and then
and
going to another school in Birmingham a
private school to do their 5th grade
through 12th grade computer science
program and now I'm where I am and
what's something that you believed when
you first begin working in education
that you no longer believed I was one of
these overachievers all through high
school and all through college and I
believed that my calling was to get the
best and brightest and make them better
and brighter and so I thought you know
value is in the AP classes and making
sure you know were doing everything we
can to make these kids as smart as we
can I wish I could like slap my older
self that is not the way this should
work I pull full 180 on equity and
access for I mean computer science but
education in general I think that's the
biggest thing that I do not believe
anymore that you know every student has
value now and every student should be
pushed as hard as they can be and
supported at the same time it's kind of
funny how perceptions of what teaching
or education is gonna be like before you
go into it and you actually get into the
classroom it's like oh exactly yeah I
mean it's it's more like you almost
develop this sort of empathy for your
students and it's like you know these
ones that have been successful in the
past they they have their ways to do it
but then you know you see the student
that you know comes to school because
they don't have food at home right and
the fact that they're still there
they're still you know giving it
everything they can just to try to get
out of the life that they're in is just
inspirational so if someone were to kind
of walk into what you consider to be an
ideal Cs classroom what would they see
in here like what are some of the
engaging learning experiences that would
be going on this is another thing that
changed for me I would say from when I
began teaching to where I am now and how
I look at learning I think it was
definitely my my own insecurities about
my classroom and you know I'm almost not
to the militant approach but like very
close like you know we we need to work
and drill it and make sure the stuff
gets done but like I said I think that
was my own insecurities coming out of
like I need control I think now you know
the least amount of control you really
can have and having the students engaged
in
that's what I feel like an ideal
classroom looks like and you know you
you have people embrace their
vulnerability and stepping out and
wanting to fail just so they know that
they're learning and so that mentality
of safety psychological safety or
learning safety whatever it would be
that would be the hallmark of my ideal
classroom yeah I know I had worked with
a lot of teachers who control is like
probably their biggest issue especially
when it comes to like facilitating
project-based learning and what not is
that control and just allowing kids to
explore and especially be going to
inquiry based learning then that's a
whole new bright level of control that
teachers have to get rid of
so speaking of project-based learning
I'm wondering what do you wish more CS
educators understood about PBL because
I've sat in on a session that you did on
project-based learning at CSTA last year
mm-hmm I'm just curious like what are
your thoughts on that what we were just
talking about with vulnerability and and
giving up that control I think it's
something that's very different for a
lot of teachers to grasp and I think you
know part of the plight right now is we
have a lot of CS teachers that are from
other disciplines and so I say this
often but in CS where the only
discipline that thinks it's natural or
doesn't think it's natural but we do it
where we're yanking someone out of their
comfort zone where they went to school
for what they you know what they know
and their content and putting them into
something new brand new at that and a
lot of times we give them a week of
professional development and then some
online community and it's like yeah you
can see it's an AP course but you know
it sounds absurd and any other AP course
that exists and so I think you know
there's an element of when you then add
on this layer of PBL or any other
inquiry based learning it teachers just
have to be super flexible they have to
be willing to embrace that failure with
their students and so I think the best
way to do that is you know building that
trust and rapport with your students
letting them know that you know this is
new for you to not only the content but
maybe you know the project-based
learning approach and what I've seen
with teachers and those that are
starting project-based learning it's
it's very overwhelming all sorts of
reasons I think classroom environments
one of them but then also a
I think there's an element of this
stigma that surrounds project-based
learning - that's like well you know I'm
gonna get my kids a project and then
they're gonna do it but they you know it
may take too much time and I think you
know there's so much progress that's
been done with project-based learning
and anyone listening I would recommend
checking out PBL Works dot work it is a
sight but forth by the buck Institute
for education which it used to be dia
org but they've rebranded in a way but
they were the I say real forerunners and
project-based learning and so I think
there's the element of looking at doing
project-based learning well and knowing
when to step in and help your students
and when to let them fail and help them
understand the difference and why we we
set up that environment I think a lot of
teachers when they first do
project-based learning they also get a
lot of backlash from students especially
the higher achieving student well why
aren't you teaching us why aren't you
telling us what to do because that's how
they've always been been taught it's
always been spoon-fed to them and
they're used to that and so breaking
them out of that mold so they can really
you know connect with the content and
make it deep is something that teachers
have to be willing to accept right yeah
that depth is something that I strongly
value in PBL because like often with
problem-based or challenge based or
puzzle based or activity based learning
like it's this surface level application
of the understanding without really much
synthesizing or depth in it right at
least in the stuff that I have seen I'm
curious with you you talked about the
failure and whatnot I'm wondering if you
could elaborate on that because at some
point what do we do about kids who are
just constantly failing or kids who
don't engage in any failure so like
either end of that spectrum like how do
you find that nice balance between
failure and success that's what comes in
time and I think that's where teachers
who you know do PBL in their classroom
or any other similar pedagogy they don't
know how to react to that they don't
know how to engage the student that
wants to do everything by themselves and
doesn't want any help or the student
that is trying but then you know is just
not finding what's going on and
so I would say one I've seen a lot of
success when teachers enlist other
students as the advocates and creating
that social dynamic within the classroom
that you know they can find a friend and
they can find someone that will help
them and help the teacher and help the
student that may be disengaged or may
help the student that is not engaging in
the level that they would want
I would preface that with the disclaimer
that you don't want to do the age old
like oh yeah well the student can just
teach everything or let me put all this
this weight and burden on this student
because I think that's setting up a
different thing I'm worried that just
because then you're kind of robbing that
student that you're wanting to enlist as
an advocate of their education and their
experience by doing that and so there's
a fine line there but I think a lot of
social interactions social dynamic is is
how you set it up so the last school I
taught at was a private school and there
was a lot of students that were on the
overachieving side of the spectrum and
what made the best impact is when they
were isolated from peers it was like a
their own mental block of saying oh okay
I can fail it's okay and this is how I
can fail this is how I can fail and not
look like I'm a failure like I think a
lot of that is the perception and it's
within that community and so like within
the community of higher achieving
students or overachieving students I can
say that from being one of like yeah I
don't want people to know that I fail or
didn't do everything perfect the first
time and so I think having that in
isolation is best in creating those
times in which no students can come back
for extra help but then allowing them to
see you know that that it's okay that
your your program can output what you've
wanted it to on the first go-round
I would also say and research supports
this that's a more common trend in
female students girls and women students
as opposed to males because of the
mentality of you know boys can go and
get hurt and dirty and I'm referencing
the TED talk from the founder of girls
who code is that correct yeah okay you
said and so about being brave and
encouraging women and girls students to
be brave and fail and learn from it I
think setting up those opportunities for
social interactions having advocates
between students and then also
in isolation for those overachieving
students you know include a link to that
TED talk and the shownotes
so hey I had classes that were in three
week rotations where I'd see them four
times minimum a week and so like every
Thursday we'd have debugging day where
it's like you start off like practicing
debugging and I would share something
that I worked on in terms of here's a
failure that I had this last week and
here's how I tried to work around that
or and whatnot but I'm curious you
mentioned like failing in isolation
which I totally understand but I having
sat with other educators there's often a
strong value on working in group
settings and personally right I never
enjoyed any group projects I've ever
worked on like ever
yeah but I'm wondering if you have
experience with failure in group
settings and how that might compare with
the failure in isolation I would say and
I would not want to set up this idea
that the students should always come and
fail in isolation I think part of that
and this is maybe jumping into the the
psychology of it all or the therapy of
it all
is allowing that student to learn to
fail but then also integrating that back
in of learning to fail in front of
others so Jared I would agree with you I
was one that I did not like being in
groups because typically I was in a
group I was going to do all the work
right and I think the benefit of of
structuring project-based learning or
any other cooperative learning is making
sure that all parties are accountable
within the group and it's structured in
a way that the students own the
accountability so they I've seen it done
for a group contract where they you know
stipulate workload they stipulate how to
contact each other what happens if
someone you know drops the ball what
happens when when they do really well in
these groups and so that group contract
can be enforced mutually amongst them
all and I think that's a good way to
create that environment
I think you know a lot of it is gonna be
helping students and meeting them where
they are because at the end of the day
students are not really gonna learn
unless they feel safe they can absorb
the knowledge and spit it back at you
but I mean we know that's not learning
for them to actually like understand
what is going on that's gonna be where
are gonna have to have that safety and
so I think it works in different ways
with different students and that's why
going back to like creating that rapport
allowing them to really bond and
understand where they're coming from and
how you know different social dynamics
within a school can affect that at
different times of the day can affect
that you know I don't like being up in
the morning and doing things but in the
afternoon I'm much happier person
and so I think giving those
opportunities for learning and doing
those things in safe settings it's
probably what I would come back to him
yeah in the time of day thing there's a
lot of research supporting like high
school kids in particular should not be
glad as school as early as they do right
we shouldn't go to work as you and I
both value project-based learning I'm
wondering it's kind of like a two-parter
when you would encourage a Cs educator
to engage in PBL and when you would not
recommend PBL I would say PBL is a great
framework I don't know that I would use
it a hundred percent of the time and I
think there's elements of it that are
great but they can kind of be teased out
a lot of PBL uses cooperative learning
which I think it's the Kagan I forgot
but they've done a lot around
cooperative learning and basically
setting up these team builder and group
building activities to take and build
these this trust and so that's I see
that as something that should be in
every single classroom your students
should come in and trust each other they
should trust you I don't see that as a
missing element from any classroom I do
think some topics some content you know
is easily explained in different ways
the constant struggle at least what I
hear from teachers I've seen is this
matter of efficiency I'm like Justin we
have to go through all this stuff and
how can we allow PBL to do it and I
think that's kind of the fun part of
designing curriculum that that is PBL
it's it's like balancing the need for
efficiency but then also the need for
student understanding like we could go
on one end of the spectrum like full PBL
all the time and we can get some really
really deep learning going on but you
know we're probably not going to be
covering a lot of other things but
as were so deep and we're using that
time appropriately and then you know on
the other end of doing efficiency
you know lecture direct instruction rote
memorization whatever it may be that's
like you know we're only hitting surface
level but we can hit a ton of topics
because you know the easiest way or the
fastest way for information to be
conveyed is just telling it to someone
and so that's where you're you're having
to to balance and so I would encourage
you know if it's a teacher that has
never done PBL before find a unit out
there create one I would say find one
and try it in your classroom see how it
works in your classroom see if it works
with the topic I think that's a great
opportunity to learn a lot about your
own teaching style about how your
students respond to it and then start
looking more from there I think you know
rushing in and trying to overhaul your
entire classroom and in one year is a
very lofty goal I do
I really enjoyed there was a book I
forget the authors but it was a hacking
project-based learning it's a very short
book but it gives like 10 to 12 steps in
there and this is a very general
approach to any classroom ten to twelve
steps case studies of how it worked and
then almost like a this is what you can
do today to do PBL stuff like quick
things and then this is what you could
do next year
and I can send you that link Jared
because I think that's a wonderful book
and for any teacher that wants to jump
into - PBL that would be a great way to
do it yeah that advice definitely pairs
nicely I did a an interview with John
Stapleton a while back and he was
talking about how he was taught
constructivist practices and pedagogy
zand thought that lecturing like or any
form of direct instruction was just like
you should avoid at all cost but then
when he got into the classroom he's like
oh but there are moments where I need
that so it definitely is about finding
that balance between different types of
engagement and pedagogy and whatnot in
the classroom yeah I would say and I
keep harping on it because I feel like
it's so important and I see it with
adults I see it with students but
setting up the trust and building that
relationship I think it's key because
you're gonna find stuff that you want to
try and you as a teacher you have to be
willing to fail you have to be willing
to be risky about things and you can't
be risky in front of your students if
you
trust that they're you know not gonna
accept your your failure as like okay
well you know guys this obviously it
didn't work thanks for bearing through
it with me or it could be one of the
best lessons but you know teachers are
never given that time to almost like
field tests they're their ideas what
they find from from that learning
approach and it's always like well this
has to be a perfect thing or you know
I'm robbing my students now like
students understand they have bad days
they encounter failure but building that
relationship allows you to flex and go
with what's gonna be best for your
students eventually yeah that definitely
resonates with me right when I first
started teaching music in a school
district to the administrators were
saying we don't have the opportunity or
luxury to fail and so they only wanted
us to do things that we quote knew would
work and so we weren't encouraged to
experiment with things and for me I just
it did not connect with like the way
that I am as an educator I'm constantly
iterating on what I'm doing every
quarter every day is something different
I mean right you just always have to be
doing new stuff right and can I just say
Jared I love the fact that your
backgrounds and music and computer
science and it's the way you approach
things from what I've seen is just like
a beautiful balance sometimes like I saw
it with math and art and like having
that those complement each other so well
and I feel like you do that so well with
computer science of music and it's a
really neat thing to see yeah it's two
things I'm nerdy and passionate about so
I'm wondering what kind of
recommendations you would have for CS
educators who are interested in
integrating into other subject areas
like math or music or whatever I'm one
of these crazy progressives that think
we really shouldn't be teaching things
separate anymore I you know
interdisciplinary studies should be I
feel like that's the way it should work
there's so much lost when we're teaching
the quadratic formula in high school
algebra without any context except then
it's like well you know let's get to the
hard word problems well know that the
word problems are where this stuff lives
this is the use and I think so many
times we teach this in isolation and
fearful
computer science is gonna jump into that
same boat like you just do computer
science you don't need like the the
programs and the examples and exercises
are just going to be these computations
of like well iterate on this loop and
you know see how many times you can add
for it to the variable you know those
kind of non authentic experiences we're
not going to stick and so at at NIM Z
were we're looking at how we do this
kindergarten through 12th grade
progression for our teachers and one
thing I've really put my flag in the
ground on is K to 8 has to be integrated
it has to be where we're teaching these
concepts through ways in which the
generals teacher can put them in their
classroom I think it's a it's an issue
of access because I hear some schools
that are I know some schools my
daughter's school has a standalone stem
teacher or standalone computer science
teacher or integration tutor or whatever
they call it but they only see her once
every seven days and this is a fairly
affluent school and so they have the
money to have that teacher but a lot of
schools don't have that and so you have
your specials that students go to an
elementary school and and some can go
and some can't because of whatever
reason if we're not teaching our
generalist teachers to be able to
integrate computer science within their
own concept or within their own content
we're missing the boat were we're still
creating this divide of you know the
those that have will continue to have
more and those that don't have will
continue to be robbed of this potential
that could be such an amazing thing I'm
full on board with with integrating and
so resources I know New York City has
the blueprint in which they they provide
a lot of resources there a lot of them
are about integration the two teachers
that the two educators that we're
working with to design and develop the
curriculum for our K to eight teachers
are actually from Cornell Tech Kelly
powers and Meg gray they are wonderful
they worked a lot in that space and so
we're gonna see how we can you know take
teachers through a three-year
progression to by the end make them
specialists and integration in their own
classrooms so that'll be exciting I also
know that cs4 all is
putting together a aligned CS and which
it will go and look at the current
content providers out there and see how
they align to the CSTA student standards
and so I think that would be a great
resource for a lot of educators trying
to find curriculum or lessons or
anything else to use
yeah and I'll make sure to link to those
so you've also had experience teaching
and virtual and hybrid learning
environments I'm wondering if you have
any recommendations for CS educators who
are considering those kind of learning
environments I think there's a lot of
value especially those schools that are
rural and don't have the funding to have
a dedicated computer science teacher I
do worry that a lot of schools will
switch to the full online version of
that because not because of how the
content is delivered but how the
students are supported and I've seen
that you know students are grouped
thirty in a classroom each one are
working on different things and the
teachers at and out or you know some
that that have a great facilitator there
are are helping them through but you're
very much reliant on what's going on
with within that curriculum or with
within that environment the students to
really seek in and so there's there's a
question of quality and then also on the
other side there's some that the virtual
high school out of Maynard Massachusetts
which I think they've rebrand it as just
VHS that's who I taught with and I think
they do have a great way of going
through because they have a teacher on
the other side that is grading and
giving feedback and helping students
when they have questions I feel like
some curriculums that are just online
that don't have that back-end of support
can potentially rob students may even
make them go the other way and not
liking the subject whatsoever so I think
it comes back to how those students are
being supported in those environments if
it's through you know the actual system
or is it through the teacher that's in
the room with them yeah and your comment
about kids not having a good experience
through it is one of the things that I
caution with when doing integrated
approaches is mmm-hmm one of the things
I recommend is starting with a core
group of teachers who are passionate
about it rather than running everybody
all at once doing this because then you
might have some like bad experiences
with the teachers yeah I don't even
how to use email right yeah and that's
where you're making students not like CS
because of the 300 other reasons and not
just the content right so I completely
agree with that the district itself has
to sign up for what we're calling CS
aligned not to be confused with the line
CS we know there's there's confusion
there there will be confusion there but
it is what it is and so there's three
components to that program one is the
teacher professional development that
I've alluded to the other one is we do
vertical teaming with those teachers and
so the district has 12 teachers that are
part of this team and so those receive
instruction throughout the year of
looking like above them and below them
grade wise and to see how those teachers
are teaching computer science and also
adapting their classroom to make sure
you know however they explained loops in
second grade we want that to to be a
very similar approach that's happening
in and fourth fifth or third grade all
the way up we don't want you know this
disparate programs or disparate ways of
explaining this and I think we have
countless amounts of other research and
every other content area that says
that's a bad thing like you don't want
to explain something one way and then
the next year you flip it around on them
and so that's one component the last
component is district planning support
in which we're going through and working
with the school leaders through this CS
roll script rubric to help them create a
plan for their district that is going to
focus on access equity and
sustainability long term but to your
earlier point Jared I completely agree
like it it can't be a mass thing and I
also think it can't be like a top-down
approach like you have to have buy-in
from these teachers you have to have
your CS champions that are saying oh
yeah I get how this works I'll say the K
to 12 initiative with Cornell Tech is
doing some wonderful things and about
five or six schools in New York that
they're working to do this integration
in in a very specific way that
meaningful way and taking these teachers
content coaching them providing them a
ton of support throughout the year what
have you learned while working on the CS
aligned oh so we launched
program last year and it was interesting
I learned so much that's that's the
small and so the big answer is we
originally designed the program to bring
in content and curriculum providers to
run their own professional development
within the within the nihms II umbrella
and I should also explain NIMS II works
way outside of computer science computer
science is actually one of the newer
content areas that we've really dug into
but organizationally we work with
schools across the nation it usually in
areas of high need or at-risk student
populations and providing them constant
support for their teachers students
study sessions and typically it has been
their college readiness program which
focuses on the AP courses the thought
process there is if we can prepare
students along the way to reach those AP
courses they have a better chance of
either going to college being more
successful in their careers and so
that's that's the overall approach and
so with that we we tried to just say
well let's invite all these different
computer science curriculum providers
and let them do professional development
under our umbrella handle the logistics
for them and see what happens while
supporting these teachers throughout the
year what we found what I found was
different content providers have
different ideas of what professional
development actually looks like right
and so there was pretty big
inconsistencies across the board when it
came to you know how content was
delivered what that looked like what the
teacher experience was we also had
teachers that were not fully aware of
what they were really getting into
because they were kind of voluntold by
their districts to show up and so
there's a lack of teacher buy-in and
then the those were really the two
biggest things and so shifting that to
this year we're looking more at a
consolidated effort of making sure
everyone in the district or everyone
that's coming is very aware of what's
going on and making sure they're the
right people to come and experience the
professional development the other one
was we're still working with the
partners that we worked with last year
but we're working on a collaborative
professional development experience so
instead of you know 12 of different
programs being offered we're folk
getting down to five and that's kata to
three to five six to eight and then a
piece ESP and apcs a while next year I
think we're gonna we're going to go
ahead and put in exploring computer
science as well so that will be the
pathway the teacher professional
development for the teachers that come
while doing the vertical teaming
throughout the year and the district
planning support and one of your
comments about the PD providers and even
just like thinking even broader like
some of the CS platforms are curricula
there are a lot of well-intentioned CS
professionals who have kind of stepped
into the education field but have never
taught a day in their life so write
about what a teacher or student would
need are often not based in reality or
actual classroom experiences so right
it's definitely something to watch out
for when selecting any kind of platform
or PD
I completely agree I'm so excited that
we're on the working group for CSTA
as providing guidance to those
professional development providers
through the cs educator standards I
think that that's gonna be a great
resource for for these providers to tap
into yeah because you're right like
there's a lot of people that are jumping
in and it it's it is well-intentioned
hopefully most of them well intentioned
and it's not financially appealing it
for for some but it is you know where
the feedback we're getting from
districts is as we're having these
conversations they they report well we
don't know what to pick we don't know
what shiny new toys to buy we you know
we have this this X amount of money and
they feel like an you know sinking it
into these robots or these type of
computers or these things are really
what's gonna benefit it's like no you
really need to make sure your teachers
are prepared they're supported because
if not you're you're buying toys that
are going to go into a closet eventually
right so offline you had mentioned that
you really try and encourage or develop
access equity sustainability things like
that through your PD do you have any
recommendations for others who are also
trying to hit those three areas yeah so
I just ran across something this morning
and it is by David Weintraub is that
right and I will
definitely send you the resource but it
is a rubric that's built for looking at
professional development through those
lenses especially access inequity and so
I think that's a wonderful resource and
I'm hoping that we can incorporate that
within what the CSTA working groups
doing I think looking at any of the
research that exploring computer science
that program has put out I know that has
been their their main focus is and
that's what their whole program was
developed around is making sure all
students can be able to have an
opportunity to learn computer science as
far as any other resources go the ready
for rigor framework with culturally
responsive teaching and that's where a
lot of a lot of our lens comes from at
NIMH Z so I would say you know that
those would be a great place to start
and then that will probably lead
teachers and other educators onto other
great things so from one type a person
to another how do you take care of
yourself and stave off burnout oh my
gosh that I saw that question and I was
like wow I don't have a good answer but
I've been trying to do better one thing
that I do is I time block really well
now my scheduling and I've started
trying to take that over to my personal
life and so like I said I'm a grad
student right now and so I will time
block in my my nights especially like
when I have I have my kids i time block
for them so you know I picked them up
from school and then they go to bed at
personal calendar is you know that's
what I'm doing and then maybe from 8:00
to 10:00 I'll try and block off
schoolwork
but then I never really thought about
applying that to personal life before I
think I talked to someone a month or two
months ago and that's what they were
doing I was like okay this is nice
because what I've realized and I you can
probably sympathize with me on this is
if I don't have it written down it stays
on my head and it creates this anxiety
panic you know like and so if I can
write it down if I can time block it off
even 30 minutes on my calendar to send
an email that I know I have to send it
makes me allows me to not have to worry
about it yeah and so I say setting up
those practices there and then as
this is like just disconnecting from
work and so like I'll purposely leave my
phone in another room at times like when
I have the girls or other times just so
I'm not checking work email so I'm not
trying to respond to something or have
my mind cluttered and I think another
thing and that this could be age so just
getting older but like saying no
sometimes like I feel like early in my
career I was yes I'll do it oh yeah of
course I want to jump in here I want to
help and even though it's
well-intentioned all of us only have so
much energy and so you know by saying
yes to everything you're really diluting
everything and so it's finding those
places in which I feel like I can make
the most impact and saying yes to that
and reserving those yeses for that time
and knowing that you know everybody's
human and and we all have to have time
to disconnect I do want to know that
your response to that question so I'm
always looking for other ways unpack
there I definitely agree with like
finding time to disconnect it's been
difficult for me for the last couple
months because I have been working on
weekends and working later into the
evenings because just so many projects
going on so learning to say no to some
of those projects would have probably
been helpful mm-hmm when I initially got
counseling like well over a decade ago
one of the things that she recommended
was like planning out your day in like
knowing like well things are gonna are
changing and so I had to force in okay
I'm gonna work out from this time to
this time and like nothing's gonna get
in the way of that ideally so I that has
been a big thing for me
also the getting things done idea of
just like writing it down putting into
your action and filing a fir here's what
I'm going to address that thing so I
don't have to keep thinking about that
that definitely helps with anxiety I
also wonder I saw a tool pop up at some
point but it was a circular calendar and
I'm I'm interested in how that can can
help because I sometimes I lose
long-term sight for
short-term like you said with all
projects that pop up and and I wonder if
looking at a circular calendar and
having like that blocked off in a way of
okay I can you know push this project
out to this point because that seems
like a more empty space on this calendar
then keeping it you know everything just
within the month the next month and so I
don't know that's just an idea could you
elaborate on like visually what does the
circular calendar look like I have like
multiple things going in my brain I will
send you a link to this too but it's
from what it looked like it was blocked
and chunks of like so there's the circle
like inner circle was chunked in I feel
like seasons so like the quarters of the
year okay and then the the outer chunk
was like in months and so there wasn't a
lot of detail provided it was really I
it looked like it was color-coded in a
way of like okay you know this happens
on this month every single you know
whatever it is every single month and or
maybe like I know I'm gonna be traveling
at these points and so I can put that on
there just as a I feel like what it was
trying to do is give like a holistic
view of your year and for us Taipei
anxiety-ridden people like it almost
provides more space to say oh okay
like I have a year like well not a
master guaranteed time but like
hopefully we have a year of like this is
the progression of life and and maybe
everything doesn't have to be done
within the next week yeah yeah like so
I'm curious what you wish there's more
research on in CS education so a topic
that's really interesting for me and
what I probably am gonna dig into for my
research is going to be the identity
that's formed with these teachers
especially those that are taken out of
their area of expertise so this teacher
identity that was formed as becoming a
math teacher or becoming a science
teacher
how does adding in this teacher that
like now you're a computer science
teacher like how what does that look
like versus are you still a math teacher
do you use both like when you first
initially talk to someone how does that
look professionally with the nihms ECS
aligned program
we're digging into you know how how does
this systemic change happen within a k12
school district by offering you know
these components or what does that look
like and I think that's kind of where I
wish a lot of focus would start going
into is this systemic changes and how
you can get the basically the biggest
bang for your buck
like going into a school district and
and tackling these issues of equity and
access and also you know putting it out
there that you know everybody is is
gonna quote money in time like money and
time are issues and everybody faces
those so let's like put those on the
table but open to the side let's let's
figure out other ways that we can be
addressing these issues ignoring the
fact that money and time are always
issues and so that's where I I would be
really interested oh and one other this
would be like a personal venture into
like medicine / computer science /
neurology or everything else
someone told me one time about some
upcoming research that like learning
computer science actually changes the
way your brain functions and works in
seeing problems and seeing things and so
I'd be really interested in that which I
just watched a TED talk on
neuroplasticity and like how you how
your brain can rewire itself which I
find all that so fascinating so that
would be a personal research project I
think yeah I have a like a bit of a
fascination with neuroscience and
whatnot and yeah it's it's it's
fascinating just we don't really fully
understand how we learn we just know
that like when you do something over and
over then you like to develop myelin and
like it helps with like being able to
fire the correct neurons at the correct
time yeah things like that but we still
don't really understand how we actually
learn yeah I think and like all of that
leads me to wonder about and it was the
the TED talk that I watched with this
neuroplasticity that there was a woman
where she couldn't gain her balance and
so part of it was like her her balance
centre was was off and so basically
retrained her brain through this tongue
sensor that every time she was balanced
she would she'd be able to like keep
that and it was creating these new
connections within her brain I wonder if
like computers
answer or doing that kind of thing could
help those with anxiety or depression or
other you know mental illnesses to
rewire those pieces of your brain that
need to so yeah certainly and that kind
of tags on to what Katie Henry mentioned
in her interviews like cs4 healing and
what is the potential for that mmm yeah
that would be amazing where my people go
to connect with you and the
organization's you work with probably
the easiest is gonna be through NIMS II
which I'm I guess you'll link my email
in and any other contact information but
also CSTA
as wonderful organization be a part of
and helps things that we're doing cs4
all has as their website now and which
is really blossoming and creating
different places and I want to start as
I'm doing more research put it out there
I enjoy cooking so if you want to take a
cooking class with me come to Birmingham
so I took a sushi class which was so
interesting a couple months ago and so I
like that
but I really truly I like just being
adventurous I think how how different
flavors can can meld together and make
new things as great I recently with my
daughters
I got a pasta maker and so we made
noodles fresh first some spaghetti and
that was that was super neat I never
done anything like that they loved it it
was a massive mess but still it was
super fun so it's worth it though oh yes
definitely
that concludes this week's episode of
the cska podcast I hope you enjoyed this
interview with Justin I certainly
enjoyed interviewing him
friendly reminder you can find all of
these show notes by clicking on the link
in the description or visiting jared
O'Leary com where you will find lots of
links to videos and books and other
resources that justin mentioned
throughout this episode if you haven't
done so already please consider giving a
review to this podcast it helps other
people find it or simply share it with
somebody that you know who might be
interested in hearing interviews like
this or the episodes were unpacked
scholarship which occurred the previous
week and will occur next week thank you
so much for taking the time to listen to
this episode I hope you all have a
wonderful week and I look forward to
speaking to you again in next week's
episode
Guest Bio
Justin Cannady is the Senior Computer Science Program Design Manager for the National Math + Science Initiative (NMSI) and oversees the development of NSMI’s K-12 computer science educator development and student curriculum. With extensive experience in computer science curriculum design and teacher learning, Justin was the Learning Experience Designer at the University of Texas Austin where he supported and developed components of the UTeach Computer Science Principles curriculum. He has served as a teacher professional development facilitator and a mentor for teachers implementing computer science and math coursework. Justin has obtained his National Board Certification in mathematics and is currently completing his doctoral degree at Franklin University.
Resources/Links Relevant to This Episode
Other podcast episodes that were mentioned or are relevant to this episode
CS Educator as Dungeon Master with Jon Stapleton
In this interview with Jon Stapleton, we discuss metaphors for education and facilitating, the importance of community and navigating inappropriate content online, how programming languages and platforms influence learning, theories and philosophies that inform Jon’s practice, critical code studies, and much more.
Decolonizing Education through SEL and PBL with Matinga Ragatz
In this interview with Matinga Ragatz, we discuss Matinga’s journey into education, creating environments where kids can learn through struggle, the importance of social and emotional learning (SEL), how schools promote individualism and exceptionalism, the intersections of project-based learning and SEL, decolonizing education, the importance of shared values in education, and so much more.
How to Get Started with Computer Science Education
In this episode I provide a framework for how districts and educators can get started with computer science education for free.
James Fester on What Works with PBL
In this interview with James Fester, we discuss using informal learning approaches within formal learning spaces, what makes a learning experience engaging, how James’ experience in the National Parks Service’s Teacher Ranger Teacher program informed how he taught in the classroom, unpacking nuances of project-based learning, debunking common misconceptions of PBL, and so much more.
micro:bit, Rhizomatic Learning, and CS for Healing with Katie Henry
In this interview with Katie Henry, we discuss the micro:bit and the do your :bit challenge, rhizomatic learning, the potential for CS for healing, and much more.
The Place for Joy in Teaching and Learning with Sara Lev
In this interview with Sara Lev, we discuss the place for joy in teaching and learning, the impact of remote learning on PBL in early childhood, misconceptions around PBL in early childhood, encouraging curiosity by responding to questions with questions, social and emotional learning, the impact of yoga and meditation on teaching, and so much more.
The Pulse of PBL with Mike Kaechele
In this interview with Mike Kaechele, we discuss dismantling prejudices through projects, how to situate project-based learning within the community and for local impact, what can be learned when a project fails, the difference between projects and recipes, why social and emotional learning (SEL) is important, lessons learned teaching a variety of subject areas, differences between equity and equality in education, and so much more.
Unpacking Various Entry Points into Innovative Teaching with Jorge Valenzuela
In this interview with Jorge Valenzuela, we discuss the importance of engineering in STEM, situating computational thinking within a problem, getting started with computational thinking and computer science, project-based learning, incorporating social and emotional learning (SEL) in the classroom, Jorge’s approach to professional development, and much more.
Project-based learning resources mentioned in this episode
CS4ALL Blueprint resources (resources developed by the New York Department of Education)
“CS4ALL will ensure every NYC student receives a meaningful unit of computer science education by 2025. With the Blueprint, our educators are making it happen.”
“AlignCS is a sensemaking tool for community members to search for and identify curricula and programs that fit their needs without needing to first become an expert in CS to find them. In our initial rollout of this tool, site visitors will be able to search for Curricula and Programs using the K-12 CS Framework to filter through them. We intend to launch in early Q1 2020.”
Productivity resources
TED Talks mentioned by Justin
Talk by Reshma Saujani on raising girls to be brave: “Teach girls bravery, not perfection”
Talk by Lara Boyd on how we learn:“After watching this, your brain will not be the same”
Connect with Justin
Find other CS educators and resources by using the #CSK8 hashtag on Twitter
Free CS Resources I Have Created
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