Advice for School Administrators Interested in CSforALL with Clark Merkley
In this interview with Clark Merkley, we discuss what Clark has learned over the years working with administrators across the nation who are interested in implementing CS education in their district.
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Welcome back to another episode of the
CSK8 podcast my name is Jared O'Leary
in this week's episode I interview
Clarke Merkley in our discussion we chat
about what Clarke has learned over the
years working with administrators across
the nation who are interested in
implementing CS education in their
district this episode would be an
excellent episode to share with
administrators who are kind of on the
fence about CS education or are unsure
where to start and it pairs nicely with
the interview with Diane Oh Grady
Cunniff which is episode 15 now I will
say from a personal note that Clark is
my boss and he is a wonderful human
being and I have enjoyed working with
him for the last couple of years he's
very humble about his background for
instance he doesn't mention that he
knows several foreign languages and used
to teach foreign language at the
university level and he truly is
passionate about helping other people
through education if you're a CS
educator who is listening to this I hope
you consider sharing this episode with
your administrators or administrators in
neighboring districts who might have
some questions about getting started
with CS for all in their schools for
example Clark mentions several ways that
you can obtain funding including
applying for the Amazon future engineer
plus boot up initiative which Clark
talks about about 3/4 of the way through
and can be found at Blue Duck PD org or
by visiting the show notes at
Ghirardelli recom I hope you enjoy this
episode and we will now begin with Clark
introducing himself so I'm Clark Merkley
executive director of boot up
professional development and I've been
involved with Buddha really since the
beginning since it was an idea of REI
and edie's who's our founder and board
president it's been exciting to see how
it's evolved from that idea to what it
is now become which is a very effective
method for school districts to get their
teachers trained and get them confident
and self efficacious as teachers of
coding and if you write a book about
your journey into your current position
what would the titles of the chapters be
no I can see the first chapter would
probably be something like budding young
scientists because when as I went into
undergraduate work I thought I would be
a research scientist or maybe a college
professor
I thought about medicine and optometry
and some other things the second chapter
would probably start off or being
entitled budding young healthcare
attorney
I met a hospital attorney and I thought
you know that's a really cool job having
command over a specialized body of
knowledge taking something that's very
complex and making it easy for people to
understand and helping healthcare
organization do its work and do good in
the community and then I transition from
that into working for national health
insurance company and I was traveling
one day with my wife and we were driving
through the Florida Keys and I said to
my wife I said I'd like to teach
and she said well you know you've always
talked about at the end of your career
maybe being a university professor or
something like that and I said now I
said I want to teach now I don't want to
wait til the end of my career you know I
wasn't really thinking about University
and she said what are you thinking be
thinking about being in like an
elementary teacher and I said no because
the kids they love their teachers they
think they're perfect and and there's
not a lot of challenge there and she
said well be thinking about high school
and I said no cuz the kids are you know
pretty much decided whether they're
gonna go to college or whether they're
not gonna go to college and she said are
you out of your mind you want to teach
junior high and I said yeah I said I
think there's an opportunity there to
influence students to become lifelong
learners and I so I like the challenge
of being a junior high teacher I had
some very influential teachers when I
was about that age that made me take my
academic studies more seriously and
introduced me to some topics and some
areas that I was really interested in
for the rest of my life so that began a
process where I left a corporate and
healthcare job and moved into teaching
junior high my first year of teaching
junior high I taught three sections of
algebra two earth science sections and
then a physical science section I guess
that next chapter would be junior high
teacher and then after I'd done that for
a few years the district office
recognized that I had some abilities in
human resources and employee benefits
and so I moved into the district office
and an administrative position in Human
Resources and got to understand how
districts operate how decisions get made
working closely with the board of
directors or the Board of Education and
seeing how things get accomplished in a
fairly large School District this
district has over 30,000 students after
that I did a few other things in the
corporate world and eventually went to
work for Emerald Data Solutions
and they produce board docs which is a
board management software solution used
by about fifteen hundred school
districts around the country and so I
was back in the education space working
with superintendents and board members
and executive secretaries to the board
and really enjoyed that experience and
then board Doc's started to give back
initiative which later became boot up
and so I transitioned from one thing to
the next and and now in a position where
we're doing some amazing things in the
world advancing computer science
education with elementary students and
we do that primarily by empowering their
teachers and that's been very gratifying
work as we've seen teachers that were
not only very intimidated by computer
science and coding but also lacked
tremendous confidence in their own
ability to do that even though they were
very good teachers rate rapport with
their students and we we know from our
experience that if you start with a
great teacher who already has a
relationship with students we can
provide them with the professional
learning they need to be very good very
confident and self efficacious teachers
of coding so a lot of the teachers who
are going into CS education sometimes
they have expressed how expectations in
reality have not always aligned in terms
of advanced expectations and what is
actually like in the classroom I'm
curious when you first began working as
a teacher what was something that you
believed that you no longer believed
after having had experience in the
classroom I went into education with the
belief that some students are going to
be hard to reach and some students are
not going to perform well and so I kind
of went in with his expectation that you
know I would have to live with a certain
level of disappointment and there were a
couple of the experiences that I had
early on in my teaching that really made
a difference for me and the first one
was teaching a science class and it was
a required class for eighth graders
and not all the eighth graders were
excited to be there and I saw my role as
a science teacher in particular being
someone who would
keep the kids engaged and excited about
real-life applications of science not
only in current events that were going
on in the world but in the in the
natural phenomena that we're taking
place around them and so I tried to just
to weave in a lot of those things into
the daily classes and including a lot of
hands-on laboratory activities and other
things where they could see the
application of science in their life and
I had one girl in particular name was
Sarah and she came in and we somehow got
talking one day or the first weeks of
school and she said I hate science I've
always hated science I didn't you know I
wish I didn't have to take this class
and so during during the course of that
that semester and then you know I met
with her parents during parent-teacher
conference and they would say you know
Sarah's really she really loves your
class you know she went into it with
some fear and you know she'd really like
science but she comes home almost every
day talking about something you said or
something you've done or something
they've learned in class and she's
really really getting excited about
science and so to see that one student
and she's just an example of many others
who you know you could tell by the looks
on their faces with you know first few
days of class they were not really
excited to be there right see them perk
up and contribute and do some really fun
creative things and join in on some of
the the quirky activities it gave me
hope for not only you know individual
students but really for all of my
students that I could be effective in
reaching them at a time in their life
when perhaps education wasn't the main
event for them they were a lot of work
going through you know social pressure
where do I belong who are my friends
what's gonna be my relationship with my
parents and I felt if I could keep them
hanging in there and committing to
learning things over a lifetime that I
would be successful as a teacher and so
a few years later I ran into Sarah's
mother at a local grocery store and she
said
I just have to let you know that Sarah
is in college now and she has she's
majoring in nursing and she's even
thinking about maybe she will apply for
medical school one day and I thought
gosh how wonderful to take this this
girl she was very bright and very you
know passionate but to have her go from
hating science to now pursuing a
full-time career in a pretty intense
scientific field you know just kind of
reinforced all those good feelings I had
about the difference that I could make
get a classroom here I lived in the same
community where I taught and I would
often see my students at the gas station
or the grocery store the movie theater
and if I happen to bump into a student
and it was close to their home they
would often invite me to come over and
meet meet their parents and sometimes I
would see the very humble circumstances
that my students were living in and it
just gave me a one a great appreciation
for the the courage and the persistence
that these students showed because I now
had a better understanding of some of
the of the challenges that they were
facing at home and to see how well they
did in school and how you know even
going to school was a challenge every
day it really opened my eyes so I think
of from you know I went into teaching
very idealistic and very you know I can
I can do some great things and change
the world and I didn't I did not leave
jaded I left with you know reinforcing
that original thought I mean my reality
was nowhere near that idealistic make
sure I had of what a teacher is like and
what kind of an effect a teacher can
have but I do know that I was able to
make a difference in the lives of my
students and you know hopefully put them
on a path to lifelong learning so how
has your experience working with
districts across the nation kind of
reaffirmed or changed your own
understandings of Cs education or just
even education in general yeah we've had
a chance to talk with administrators
from districts all over the country from
Alaska
the city of New York two small rural
communities and one of the things that I
that I'm encouraged by is what I hear in
the in the those conversations is a true
passion for student success they want
their students to be successful in all
aspects not just academic but socially
and especially as they advance and
they're in their k-12 education to be
prepared for life and careers and future
education and that's almost universal or
you know the very very large school
districts down to the very small and so
that's been very encouraging to see I
think one of the things that has been a
little bit more challenging is as a
non-profit focused on coding and
computer science education we have a
true passion because we know that the
teachers who receive our training
transform dramatically in terms of their
level of confidence they go from being
completely fearful and intimidated about
their ability to do coding
and then once they realize one that it's
it's not as difficult as they originally
thought and second that it really is
engaging for the students and that they
can incorporate that right into the the
things that they're already doing with
language arts and mathematics and
science and social studies and other
topics
that we just see really wonderful things
happening with teachers and then
correspondingly when they are working
with their own students we see amazing
things happening with the students which
is really the the main point is you know
getting getting students interested in
computer science and coding and doing
that by creating that engagement and
excitement and confidence with the
teachers so that part has been very
gratifying I think that one thing that I
still have hope for and that is that
district administrators will see how
important it is to get this literacy
into the hands of their students
particularly the elementary level they
don't all have to go into computer
science and they don't have to even take
AP computer science as an elective in
high school but when they learn to think
computationally and they learn to think
algorithmic rhythmically meaning they
learn to think in in terms of clear
instructions and patterns and also the
the creativity and the design thinking
that comes along with coding will
benefit them in almost every academic
subject that you can imagine and so we
can see that connection and sometimes
it's it's it's difficult helping
administrators understand that when they
have so many things going on in their in
their district
Yanis a lot easier at least I think is a
lot easier now to convince
administrators now that we have evidence
and data from external sources kind of
validating what we've been doing the
last couple of years whereas at the
beginning it was like well what we're
doing is based on research but we don't
have research on the effects yet yeah
and now that we you know we've been
doing our own collection of data and
analysis and we're able to show that and
that makes a big difference because
something like this where it even though
computer science has been around for
decades and it's been you know brought
to a very high level in the in the
workforce it still has not made its way
into k-12 education to the extent that
it needs to be so our experience and the
data that we've been able to
I collect and analyze and now finding
its way into research publications to
other places does show one that our
professional development is is critical
to getting that teacher confidence which
i think is a it's a good news for a
school district because if you think
that I've got to go into a college or
university setting and try and recruit
and peer science majors to go into
teaching I think what we've established
is no you can take people that really
want to be elementary education teachers
give them the the additional knowledge
and skills and training and support and
they can be very very good coding in
computer science teachers at the
elementary level that's the part that's
I think difficult for someone who's
maybe going into computer science as a
major to think along those lines there
they're mostly thinking like how is this
going to help me advance in my career as
a software engineer or developer whereas
those that go into the teaching
professions typically they're there
because someone has been a great
influence in their life as a teacher and
they want to replicate that same feeling
that they had from a teacher who saw
potential in them so we we've
demonstrated that that model works so
you don't have to worry like I've got to
go hire computer science experts to
teach kids you know I can take a really
good teacher and help them be a really
good coding and computer science teacher
and you don't run into the issue of how
do I convince this person to cut their
pay in half right exactly I mean and
most people they you know they they
wouldn't make that jump so if you had a
close friend who was a district
administrator really wanted to get
started with CS education in their
district what advice would you give in
well you know that I have this
conversation quite often either with
people that I've worked with in
administration or people that have
become friends
what I typically like to do is say let
me let me have you come and watch this
in action
because it's one thing to tell somebody
you know if you introduce computer
science at the elementary level at your
school you're gonna see a lot of great
things happening first and foremost what
you're going to see is a tremendous
commitment to equity meaning you don't
have to wait until junior high and make
this an elective offering and then hope
that you can recruit the right students
into the class or get a nice
representation of your student body if
you do it at the elementary level where
all students have access to it you will
find that some of the students that you
might not have otherwise thought would
be good at this or actually very good at
it and love it and so we've seen success
with special education students students
on the autism spectrum we've seen
students who you might not otherwise
think really have a gift first for some
kind of academic pursuit really blossom
and you know really shine when it comes
to coding in computer science
and sometimes it's just the you know the
way it appeals to them they're very good
at consuming code and consuming
technology and if and we can introduce
them to the creative powers of coding
and let them you know come up with their
own creations and their own projects it
really it really sends a strong message
to students so that sort of one thing
that I I can tell them but I say come
and watch this in action nothing more
magical than than two things that we see
and do one is when our facilitators work
with teachers and we see especially that
very first session where they come in
with a lot of preconceived notions about
how difficult coding is I mean a lot
some of them are thinking ones and zeros
binary cutting great I'm thinking really
complicated syntax you know and then we
we take them through a process where we
introduce them to scratch for example
where the way the introduction is
typically done is we just have them open
up scratch and start playing around with
some of the icons and seeing what they
can do and their coding but they don't
have no idea that they're really coding
until we stop and let them know that hey
congratulations you just created your
first algorithm and so I've had a chance
to be with administrators in those
settings with new teachers and they they
say two things that are really critical
one is
this is great because it's it's hands-on
it's not just sit and get professional
development which you know that's kind
of what a lot of our teachers think and
we know that that that kind of
professional development that kind of
learning environment is not you know
conducive to the best learning it's when
someone can learn in the context of
actually doing it and and that's what we
take a lot of a lot of pride in and so
that experience of seeing new teachers
be introduced to coding and computer
science and almost within minutes
sometimes go from trepidation and fear
to you know laughter and fun and
engagement and and then the next thing
is we do that's really exciting to see
is when one of our facilitators will do
what we call model teaching so you can
you can sit in a classroom and sit in
professional learning and maybe actually
have a hands-on experience but then when
you get to see someone teaching your own
class of students and you know those
students very well you know their
tendencies and their behavior and you
know what kinds of things that they get
bored with and what kinds of things they
like but so then to see someone who
knows how to facilitate a coding lesson
do that with your very own group of
students that's that's the where the
real magic happens because then it's
it's it's not a an intellectual exercise
anymore it's like okay now I can see
myself in that role buying what I've
just learned and as we do the
professional development over time you
know we'll come back every six to eight
weeks and and reinforce what they've
been taught and teach new concepts
and we see the teachers grow in
confidence as they learn new skills and
then watch them apply that in the
classroom
that's that's what's really exciting so
I encouraged my administrator friends is
to see it in action you know rather than
just trying to experience it
intellectually in my former
superintendent dr. Betsy Hargrove she
did the same thing so she would
constantly have administrators from
other districts just go into I've in my
classroom or another coding teacher's
classroom just to see what does this
look like what is our professional
development look like and can this be
done at this grade level because there
is some hang-up for some people in terms
of thinking that coding or computer
science is too difficult for younger
kids yeah and we and we hear that a lot
and then I share with them my
experiences of being in a kindergarten
classroom and seeing the kids as they
come into the room you know they just
almost sprint to the heart to pick up
their iPads it run over and they stand
if there are in the middle of a project
they just open up their iPad and they
start working on their project where
they left off they can't even read yet
but they but they're doing fairly
sophisticated coding work you know at
least as an administrator would think of
it that that is really exciting in it
and it's not just playing around because
there's a lot of administrators they
think well we've got a computer lab but
the kids just going there and goof
around and look stuff up and play games
and do other things when you see a
student that's actually working on
something they care about that's when it
really really gets exciting and we had a
story from one of our districts we work
with in Iowa a little third-grade girl
was working on a project and scratch and
went to the teacher and said is there
any way I can do a project to help my
five-year-old brother learn basic math
and the teachers like well I don't know
I yeah I guess you could once you give
it a try
so she runs over and she starts you know
heads down she's working on this thing
and you know in classic elementary
coding style she's trying different
things to see how they work and
debugging and you know redesigning and
making it attractive and putting in
positive reinforcements if you get the
answers right and a teacher you know was
kind of moved on with other things
didn't really think much about it comes
back a few weeks later and said well how
did that little project go about
teaching your brother math and she said
it's great he's only five years old but
he knows all of his addition and
subtraction for all the numbers one
through ten and the teacher says well
show me what you've done and so she had
developed a little project it was kind
of like a digital flashcard thing with
some you know animation to support it
and if he got the answers right it gave
him a little bell or a whistle or a
beret or something like that and over
the course of just a few weeks with his
sister's application as she developed he
would have learned basic math
and so one of the cool things that we
see with computer science especially
when the students get to work on
something that they're interested in
because the students you know even as
young you know second third fourth
graders they already are interested in
different things like pets and music and
fashion and sports and their family and
you know the environment or you know
keeping their neighborhood safe and
clean whatever it is when they're
creating projects they're they're using
characters that appeal to them so
whether they're animals or family
members and so they're able to do do
projects with people or figures that
they can relate with it really tightens
the level of engagement and the cool
thing is I mean maybe it's not so cool
for the teacher who has to follow the
coding lesson but they get so excited
about it they don't want to leave they
don't want or drop that off and pick up
the next subject so the really cool
thing is when they when they get that
level of engagement and then if the
teachers are trained and they can use
what they've learned to integrate in
across the curriculum then it really
becomes cool we've seen some teachers do
some amazing things with integrating
coding into language arts and social
studies and science and math and other
areas where once the teachers have that
confidence in their own ability and
their students know you know rather than
doing you know a book report like you
know reading a new book and we're you
know starting with the title page and
dissecting the novel and understanding
the characters and at the same time
learning spelling and grammar and usage
well if I give the students a coding
project option instead of the
traditional book report I can still
assess all those same things as a
teacher you know did they end the plot
and the characters and and they
understand the flow of the story and if
there are certain key vocabulary words
that I wanted them to use in a book
report like you know I could still make
that same requirement in a coding
project
they see the students really come to
life for a couple reasons one is they
get a choice and students always like to
have a choice you know can I either do a
written book report or I can do a coding
project but if for some reason that
creative act of creating a little coding
project really gets the students to
think in a little bit different level
and maybe using some other parts of
their brain they might not typically use
so that's very exciting now what are
some of the questions that you wish
district administrators would ask you
about getting started with developing or
implementing CS education in their own
schools or district well I guess the
ones I wish they would ask is and and
sometimes they do how is this going to
help my teachers kind of behind that
question that I would like them to ask
is the question that we typically hear
is or their statement is our teachers
have so much on their plate they can and
they do one more thing right and so why
would I have them try and and do a
computer science class - that's an
opportunity for me to kind of talk about
especially the elementary level coding
is a literacy rather than as a separate
class or a separate subject and for many
administrators that's kind of a new a
new revelation to them I think I said
you know at the same time they're
acquiring other languages like oral
skills written skills and you know
mathematical or do mercy skills it's an
ideal time to introduce them to some of
the of the literacy that comes along
with coding and then you know how can I
help my teachers that's what we'd really
like to hear is because then it's it it
comes from that lens rather than what I
consider somewhat of an unfounded
concern that the teachers can't do this
I'd rather view it as like we can
empower the teachers rather than try and
protect them from you know something
that might might be upsetting to them
I've been an administrator before I
understand that you know you don't want
to overburden people or come up with you
know the flavor of the day new program
that we're doing one of the things I you
know I wish there were more research out
there right now is about the impact of
getting introduced to coding early on
others
object areas my hypothesis is that if
you learn to code and when you're you
know early elementary school that it
will help you in language arts and it
will help you in mathematics to perform
better because you'll see connections
and you'll see other ways of solving
problems and you will you know build in
this that this you know resiliency or
grit to keep at it a lot of times when
you do a program and scratch it doesn't
it doesn't always work the way you want
it to and it never does you always have
to try new things I think students would
perform better but you know that I'm
still waiting for some really good solid
academic research to support that yeah
and if at the very least even if it
doesn't increase the test scores at
least to be able to demonstrate well it
doesn't lower the test scores either so
they still are performing at the
expected level even with the addition of
working on computer science or coding in
the classroom yeah I guess there's a as
a for because I kid there is probably
that concern and you know adding one
more thing we've had a couple of
situations that you know I'm just
understandable but also a little bit
disappointing where we've been working
with districts and as soon as they got
their reading scores back on the
standardized exam they pull the plug for
that those classrooms or those schools
on computer science and that's
disappointing because you know I'd like
to think that we've certainly it's not
hurting the students in any way and you
know on the other end that it's
enhancing their ability to perform well
on those things you know there's so much
public pressure for you know getting
reading scores and math scores to be at
grade level or above some state norm
that it does unfortunately put a little
bit more pressure on districts to think
about introducing computer science and
coding to their students yeah or even
any subject area that's outside of
what's tested so like in the arts a lot
of those classes also get pulled it's
basically like well if it's not tested
and we're gonna eliminate it from our
school day because it essentially
doesn't matter those those kinds of
subjects do I mean one day they enhance
the joy and the satisfaction of the
students right if they can we can see a
more broad-based approach I think it
adds to the richness of joy of an
elementary student
when they can do things other than just
you know read write and do math you know
that it enhances their entire experience
because those of us that have been you
know involved in in those kinds of
pursuits either at leisure or
professionally know that those and real
you know richness and happiness to our
lives so it's important to have those at
the elementary level as well yeah I mean
honestly that's why I stayed in school
is because of the the subject areas that
weren't being tested on I mean they were
the ones that I enjoyed the most but
that's just my own anecdotal experience
yeah I mean as an elementary kid my
favorite subjects were lunch and recess
but and I and I often ask other young
young students their favorite subjects I
get similar responses but something
changed in years right the other cool
thing that we see with coding that you
know you may not see in other other
settings is there is a lot of
collaboration that takes place and I
just finished reading a book called
coding as a playground and the the thing
I liked about the book was you know they
said a lot of us have an education have
done playground Duty or you know
something like that where we had to
monitor what was taking place on the
playground and what does that look like
and what does that sound like and you
know teachers will say well like a us
know II you know kids running around
doing all kinds of things and so if
coding is a playground where it is a
little bit noisy a little it is a little
bit chaotic but you hear laughter you
hear you see people talking with each
other you see students pursuing things
that they really like and enjoy what if
you could capture that in an in an
academic setting where they're learning
something new and applying it and of
course the the the opposite analogy is
coding as a playpen where I've set such
tight restrictions and barriers that the
students can't get out of typically when
you think of a playpen you think you
know somebody's screaming and crying
because they don't like it by him and
you know so a teacher has to take a more
open view because they're the most
exciting coding classrooms that we go
into they're a little noisy and
little chaotic and you know people are
talking and laughing and they want to
share what they just did with a friend
right you know that's part of the this
this social and joyful part of coding
that I think for the students really
enhances their experience with a good
teacher leader / facilitator they can
they can do some wonderful things so you
had mentioned that we know of a district
to cut back on computer science
education because of their they wanted
to focus on test scores and other
subject areas I'm wondering if you have
other regrets that some administrators
have voiced about their approach to
implementing CS education in their
districts yeah I guess or a couple of
others and one is and this and it's kind
of related to this idea of coding as a
playground if if you feel like the
teachers need to have a scripted plan
laid out this is what lesson you will
teach at what time and this is how it's
going to go and here's your lesson plan
and it's all set out that kind of a and
I'll call it a boxed curriculum approach
for lack of a better term it really
doesn't serve the students well it might
be easier for the teachers because they
don't they don't have to do a lot of
preparation or a lot of thinking or
manage a little bit of chaos they they
kind of follow the recipe and you know
and the students will follow along and
do what you know what they're told or
not do what they're told but whatever
the case may be so I I worry a little
bit about that that there are some
districts that in in the desire to bring
order and structure for teachers squelch
the creativity and learning
opportunities for the students just
because they have things too tightly
scripted or too too controlled if that's
the case then typically it's a project
where there is one end result that the
students are trying to achieve and there
might be a couple different paths to get
there but the students creativity and
their ability to apply their own
interest and to do a project where
they're working on something they care
about gets lost great hands
I guess that that's another thing I'm
concerned about is just over structure
the coding in computer science which is
you'll see that another subject areas as
well I mean you can you can acquire
curriculum that is really scripted right
down to the almost to the minute of
what's going to be done and what's going
to happen in a class or during a
particular classroom session and you
might have some cool audio-visual
support or activities that go along with
it but it's a it's a pre-scripted recipe
driven curriculum the tea I can't admit
I mean as a teacher I never got excited
about stuff like that I can't imagine
that student well I mean I know students
don't like it because you know they're
always like well you're just following
the book you're just you're just you
know you you're not doing anything cool
or creative you're not helping me
understand this so I saw that I guess
that's something I'd also worry about is
just trying to make it too scripted for
teachers rather than giving giving them
the opportunity let the students explore
yeah I'm hoping that with the continued
spread of culturally responsive pedagogy
or teaching that that kind of gets rid
of that
so I previously worked in a district not
Avondale but a one before that where the
PE teachers hit play on a what I think
was a cassette at the time and it would
just verbally dictate out what all the
kids were supposed to do at that day on
that lesson so like there was no choice
no interests added to it it was
everything was literally scripted in
every elementary teacher in the district
was expected to hit play on the same
cassette every week and it it was just a
nightmare the opposite of what do I do
what a that what a terrible I mean
terrible student experience but hey you
can't imagine the teachers really
thought that was terribly worthwhile
either right even those from my
perspective it just completely got rid
of any expertise that any of those
educators could have provided in the
realm of physical education and just
made them so that they were just going
around just making sure people were
stretching the right way or things like
that like there is no autonomy or
ability to kind of customize things to
match the interests of the kids they
were working
well yeah that's I mean there's a huge
push in education right now for
personalized learning a lot of people
are still trying to figure out what does
that actually look like and how do we
make it happen and what is that what
implications does that have for teachers
but at coding is a great example for
that because if you've got students that
are working on something that they care
about by definition that it's not going
to be the same as the other students in
the class
and the other thing that I you know you
mentioned culturally responsive
curriculum the cool thing about you know
when students do something they're
interested in they can they can do
something that is a very personal
interest to them and you know we often
talk about in in in education you know
the space if I can't see it I can't be
it meaning if I don't see somebody who
looks like me that's doing what I like
to do or what I want to do maybe I can't
I can't be that person and you know one
of the cool things that's and it's
really I'll call it an unintentional
benefit of what we're doing and that is
in the in the professional ranks women
are underrepresented in in the you know
IT and technical fields but at the
elementary level and across the country
ninety percent of the teachers are women
and so when girls can see that their
teacher who you know looks like them and
you know maybe even racially looks like
them it can do something that they
really like or that they find
interesting all of a sudden they've got
that role model right and they go yeah
my teacher can learn this I can learn
this and my teacher really seems to
enjoy this and so you know that's
something I wanted I might want to be
interested in we all know that we when
we have a teacher who's teaching a
subject that they really love and they
care about it makes the whole experience
more interesting it it could be
something you walked into the class and
you didn't care anything about it you
know I remember I had an economics class
undergrad and I wasn't really I was
sports tracked into the sciences and and
literature but the teacher was so good
you know something like oh I really like
economics because the teacher just had a
fascinating way of tying in current
events and real life and you know
decision-making and game theory and
other things I'm like that's time this
is cool
and we see the same thing happening with
coding where the students can pick up on
the excitement or lack of excitement of
a teacher and typically when the
teachers are learning something new
they're they're pretty excited about it
you know they're they're gaining
confidence and a skill they didn't
thought they would have and the students
pick up on that and that energy carries
through
yeah when I've had some friends who are
district administrators in other
districts kind of asked for my advice on
this if they should just start with
every teacher in their school learning
how to code and implementing CS
education actually that might make
things worse in the long run because if
we start with teachers who are not
interested in it and hesitant to begin
with and you put them in front of kids
it might just turn kids away from it but
if you start with a core group of
volunteers who are already passionate
about wanting to do that and then you
can build off of that and grow from
there yeah and we we see that very often
with the districts we work with you know
they may say for example we want to have
you train our media text because we we
don't want our classroom teachers to
take their eye off the ball and when the
teachers see the students getting ready
to go to the library for you know their
coding class how excited they are and
you know they're talking and just you
know could barely contain themselves
then when they come back they're really
excited and they're still talking about
the project they were working on the
classroom teachers start to say what are
they doing in there because whatever
they're doing I wish I had that same
when I'm in a teaching math I wish I had
that same level of excitement and
enthusiasm right and then what we see in
those districts were they've decided not
to have the teachers and professional
development very often that's the next
thing they think about is how do we get
more classroom teachers and they'll
typically take the ones that are
volunteering the ones that say I've
heard that it's I've heard that it's not
that hard to learn because I've talked
to some of my colleagues and I know how
excited the students are can I can I get
that training
good district will you know rapidly
encourage those early adopters to come
on board and then eventually I mean
someday maybe a generation from now
every elementary teacher will get coding
in their pre-service work even if
they've elected to be an elementary
teacher right and talking about
pedagogically what do you need to know
to do this in a classroom setting rather
than just taking a classes on the
content area so like a CS 101 course or
something like that and then not have
any application of what would this what
would learning C++ have anything to do
with working with a kindergartner
well yeah I probably wouldn't have
anything right right but yeah if they
can take it in the context of how to be
a more effective elementary teacher then
I think it makes them it would make a
real difference we're starting to see
that a little bit around the country
with some of the pre-service programs
but I anticipate that that will grow
over time yep so if you can make wave
like a magic wand and make a change in
CS education what change would you make
I know what I would say so I'll say what
I'm thinking even though it may not be
popular is it I would actually like it
to be a mandatory subject and and I say
that with some with some hesitation
because I mean for example in the United
Kingdom it is and there's a goal that at
a certain point in the very near future
that every student will have an
opportunity to get computer science at
every grade in every class so I like it
because that does kind of force the
issue and and it also would cause people
to pay attention and and and think about
it more seriously the other part of me
is I never like to be told what to do
and so if somebody mandates something I
mean I'm I'm probably one of those
that's you know gonna be resistant just
out of principle yeah you know forced to
do something and so I kind of like the
idea of a soft mandate meaning this is
who we are you know let's say it's at a
district level this is who we are we
think these kinds of skills are
essential for our students to gain and
this literacy is essential for them to
have and so we want to give them every
opportunity and we also want to
demonstrate to our building level
principals and to our teachers and to
our staff
that this is part of who we are and what
we do and then and also we're going to
provide you with the resources you need
to be successful
and typically that starts with good
professional development professional
learning opportunities but it could be
something as simple as we're going to
you know cover the cost of your
substitute so you can get that training
right or we're going to make sure that
we have enough devices for teachers that
want to integrate this into the into the
regular curriculum or it could be
something as simple as you know we'll
give you a designation or a certificate
or a small stipend for completing the
training because it's important to us
and we want to we want to show you that
that kind of support so it doesn't have
to be a budget breaker for a district at
all and often what we see is it really
is a visionary leader or a group of
leaders at a school district who see
that and say I want to make sure that
I'm providing appropriate support to
those teachers who are learning this and
then by doing that our students will
gain a literacy and a set of skills and
abilities that they might not otherwise
have so there has been some concerns
from administrators regarding the
budgets so what have some of the
visionaries and thought leaders that
you've spoken with her work with done to
kind of find some funding for doing that
professional development or the
substitute cost or device cost or
whatever like how could districts get
started if they currently don't have the
funding well in its entry so I'll give
you a couple of responses to that I was
talking to a Cs education leader in
Texas and you know we somebody brought
up the funding the funding obstacle
we'll call it and she said you know if
you just look around at all of the
marching bands we have in Texas and how
much money they spend on instruments and
uniforms and competitions and everything
else don't tell me there's not money to
be found in the budget for computer
science education so one of them one of
the responses is sort of a priority
question and I'm all for marching bands
having been a former marching band
member myself but you know the point
being you've got to set priorities as a
district and then that may be
reallocating some of your general budget
money to words can
science education the second thing that
we see oh I'll give you one this that's
obvious than one that's not so obvious
the obvious one we see is there are many
states around the country whose
legislatures are now appropriating funds
specifically for computer science
education and sometimes and a more
open-ended grant in the form of you can
use this for professional development or
devices or covering administrative
expenses if you need to hire someone
else at the district level or here's
some money to do some planning since you
know strategic planning around computer
science so those are our clear
opportunities where funds have been
earmarked specifically for computer
science education and districts can
apply for those and thence and then have
the funding to be able to do it the
other one that's not not so obvious to
us but I have seen it happen
occasionally I'm privy to the internal
conversations that take place at
districts where they are getting
creative about how they're going to find
funding to be able to do this
and so I've heard some districts say you
know we've got some title one money that
I think would apply to this or we've got
some title two funds that I think we
could designate towards this computer
science education or there was one
district that said you know we have a
Mexican arts grant it's broad enough
that we could if we can integrate coding
into art there might be a way that we
could you know earmark some of those
funds or use some of those funds to
support a computer science initiative at
our school and then there's other places
you know Utah comes to mind because I
was on a school community council there
and the legislature has set aside funds
for each local school community council
to be able to give teacher or classroom
grants or sometimes school level grants
for certain things to happen a school
that doesn't have the the funding may
say well there may be there's some
opportunities there with the school
community council grant fund to do
something we've also seen and in fact I
met with somebody from DonorsChoose last
week when I was in Washington DC and
there are a lot of teachers that are
either acquiring curriculum resources
sometimes they're acquiring robots and
other things to help in their individual
classroom and I talked to I talked to
them about are there things that you do
on a broader scale where let's say a
district wants to do something like
professional learning or they want to
increase the number of devices they have
so the students can go one-to-one it
could be something beyond what just an
individual classroom or teacher might
want
and there are some of those
opportunities out there and so I think
if a if a district really wants to do it
that there are some opportunities for
funding and one of the other things that
you know that we're involved with is we
just recently entered a relationship
with Amazon future engineer where
they're providing the funding to allow
us to go into districts around the
country and the priority is for
districts that have high needs so the
high free and reduced lunch or high
poverty or high title one minority areas
to to bring opportunities for good
quality professional learning to
districts that may not otherwise be able
to afford it
and so these are in places where they
may not have a state grant they may not
have a generous Foundation they may not
have access to other corporate resources
and so this is a great way and right now
between now and the end of March
districts around the country can apply
for that that Amazon future engineer
boot up grant by going to our website
and so that's you know that's one thing
that we see is a real opportunity to
close some of the equity gaps that we
see around the country and I love that
we're basically able to continue
providing the same PDE we've been doing
but essentially giving it to a district
as an award yeah now I'll just use one
one example I about a year and a half
ago with the administrators of the
Atlanta Public Schools we were talking
about this and they you know the
reception was oh this is great but does
it cost anything and I said well
typically districts will pay us for our
services to come in and do the
professional development and the the
administrators meeting was said well
unless it's unless it's free or
practically free and it's really good we
we probably won't be able to do it
because oliver all of our schools or
charter schools they all have their own
governing boards and you know they if we
do anything from the district office
level it has to be pretty low cost to
the schools and it has to be good
otherwise they can choose not to do it
for me this is a classic example of
where the amazon future engineer
initiative really can come into play
because now we can offer our services to
a district like Atlanta it has those
high needs and and and you know
significant equity gaps and bring it to
their students and at a cost that's very
low so districts are typically under
this grant they're not paying for boot
up services at all no they might cover
the cost of substitutes they might you
know provide lunches or other things
during professional development but it's
a really low point of entry for a
district to really get some good some
good support so I know in the last
couple of weeks in particular you've
traveled to several conferences and
you've gone through well over a hundred
applications for various positions for
working at boot up I'm curious how do
you as somebody who is very busy take
care of yourself first Dave off burnout
haha well I guess to two things is even
even if I'm traveling a lot I try and be
very careful about what I eat and you
know what I drink very often all you
know is I'm traveling in different
places I'll make us a local stop to the
grocery store hey which is always
healthier than trying to you know get
something fast and cheap at a fast food
place so there's that and then the other
thing and this is a really small thing I
have my favorite pillow that I take with
me cuz it because I'm often sleeping in
you know Airbnb Xand and hotels and just
being able to get a good night's sleep
makes it makes a big difference and as
far as the burnout goes right now I mean
it's so exciting somebody really cool
things are happening
I mean Computer Science education
especially at the elementary level you
know finding the motivation and finding
the the drive to keep going is not hard
at all there's I mean there may come a
time when it's just so overwhelming that
I just say I wish I could clone myself
but that is you know we have such great
team members that boot up and you know
we're hiring for other other positions
right now and the applicants that we're
getting here just you know great people
who have a past
for making a difference in the world and
that you know as a non-profit we can be
very mission driven and the mission is
is to get kids coding and and we do that
by empowering their teachers and that's
and then when you get to see the fruits
of that I mean the evidence of that in
in the teachers that we work with and
the students that they work with you
know the the gratification is built
right in though that that parts that
part's easy and one thing that'll add
having had many conversations with Clark
is also following a lot of the methods
that were mentioned in the interview
with Dave briquette II so there's a lot
of podcasts and books that are
recommended in the show notes for that
one like getting things done which I
know has been a huge impact on both
Clark and I in terms of trying to make
it so we can get through the actions
that we have for the day without getting
burned out doing too many things at once
yeah well I think the the beauty of some
of those tools is it's not only just
creating a magnificent to-do list but it
but it's all about doing what gets you
the best return on your investment of
energy and time and passion right and
you know that's always a that's always a
mix between you know some things just
have to get done and you know they may
not be the things that you need the most
but they just have to happen I mean
people have to get paid benefits have to
be administered you know those kinds of
things have to happen with precision but
at the same time if I can focus my time
energies and skills on doing something
that has high value and high return
that's really the you know the beauty of
getting things done and getting things
done elegantly is you know that's kind
of the essence of what we do you may
have already answered this question
earlier but what do you wish there's
more research on that could help
districts with getting started in CS ed
yeah so I do I did mention the one that
I think is really essential and that is
the impact of learning coding at a young
age on academic performance and other
subject areas
to me that that would be that would be
one that would need to gain a lot of
attention because then districts don't
think how can I fit one more thing into
the day it would be I've got to make
this happen
because it's going to yield positive
results and then the second thing that
you know this this one's much more
difficult to quantify but I think it's
essential because if you think about you
know if if one of the purposes of
education is to is to create a vibrant
citizenry some day that doesn't and that
doesn't just mean you know good
productivity in the workplace it means
being good citizens and good human
beings oddly you know I'd love to see
you know research and support for the
proposition that learning learning this
literacy at a young age you learning how
to code and think computationally and
collaborating and and being creative it
leads to a richer citizenry you know and
it may not be monetarily it may be
intellectually or socially you know I
if such research could ever be done that
would be nice to see something like that
do you have questions for myself or to
the field yeah I guess so a question for
the field
I haven't get involved these
conversations and it's usually with CTE
directors or high school teachers or
administrators are thinking about career
and college readiness there's a lot of
talk about how do we recruit students
into computer science so we already
talked about the problems of trying to
recruit teachers into computer science
and my my response is you know don't
recruit them grow them but the the power
of introducing this at the elementary
level when all students get it during
the school day
you create a new opportunity and or
problem for yourself and that is
what am I going to have for them in
middle school junior high in high school
if they're coming in too into those
environments with several years of
coding and computational thinking
experience I've got to think very
differently about what offerings that I
make and I think that would be a really
good problem to have I guess what and
you know a lot of the computer science
teachers the ones who call themselves
computer science teachers are at the
secondary level you know the nine
through twelve typically I'd like to
have them think more broadly that you
know these kids kind of literacy and
these kind of skills are for everyone
and not just high performing students
that that elect it and you know junior
high or high school or you know that
we're selecting out aid the cream of the
crop to take computer science I'd really
like to see this be much more
egalitarian and much more equitable in
the way that those opportunities are
presented and we've we see if you're if
you're thinking about the pipeline and
whether that's a pipeline to jobs some
of which will be very computer
programming intensive and then others
may not be at all but you know having
that literacy and understanding it's
still going to be important no matter
what career you go into having them
think about you know the power of
introducing it at the elementary level
is something I think I'd like the
the field to think about and keep
working on it much easier to recruit
some students into your junior high
elective computer science class if you
know they've all had coding for several
years in elementary school then it's
really like how am I going to find
enough teachers to staff all of the the
need that I have or in some some states
we've seen it's it's no longer an
elective it's it's actually going to be
a requirement and you know if that's the
case if it's a required middle school
class in computer science then you know
you've already got the staffing thing to
be thinking about but then secondly you
got to think about the the knowledge
base of the students are coming in with
right yeah it completely changes things
when at least in high school when I took
C++ course it was assumed that we had
zero prior coding experience or computer
science experience but if you have kids
gone through K through six or K through
eight and coding every single year
you're gonna have to revamp your high
school classes to account for that so
that'll be an interesting dilemma a lot
of districts are gonna have to work
through yeah well then and you know when
you come right down to it it is an
equity issue right now you have great
elementary computer science teachers but
there's maybe one in a district or two
in a district they're not doing the same
thing consistently and so if you have a
student who just happened to be in that
teachers class in first grade and they
got introduced to scratch jr. and
they're doing some really cool things
and maybe they've had a little bit of
robotics and then they go to second
grade and the teacher says oh I want to
start something with coding well the
kids that I had the teacher of the year
before like boy I already did this and
the other students that didn't have that
teacher who weren't fortunate enough to
have that teacher all of a sudden
they're like we don't we didn't know
this we've created inequity without
really trying to just I'm having you
know one teacher in isolation doing it
in a district or in a school and what we
see is it really gets powerful when all
that all the teachers are on board and
doing similar things and
reinforcing each other from grade to
grade and being more a lot more
conscious about where you know where the
students have been and where they're
where they're going great and the other
thing that happens when you you know
with a current model we see in a lot of
districts is that one teacher who's
amazing at coding and computer science
and maybe they've got a little Robotics
Club or whatever they leave they move on
to a position in administration or
district office the program is gone
right and that's you know that's really
sad to see that it could be the fabulous
program that's really a showcase for the
district but then that one that one
teacher moves on it's over and we've got
to create more sustainable structures
and systems yeah I would have been a
reviewer for the what is it the teaching
excellence in computer science Awards or
whatever it's called the last few years
and one of the criteria that has been at
least on the recent reviews is how
sustainable are your efforts in terms of
okay this is great that you're having
this awesome impact and the field of
computer science through education but
is it a hundred percent reliable on you
or are you building up some sort of
infrastructure so that when you leave it
can continue after you're gone exactly
yeah and too often that is so difficult
I mean some of these really good model
teachers that we've met they try and get
their colleagues involved in it you know
they they can see that it's bringing
attention to that teacher or that
classroom or that school and they try
and get other people involved without
sort of district vision and district
support it's really hard to make that
happen okay so it's it's too often you
know the rule rather than the exception
of the program withers once that
teachers is moved on where it could
people go to connect with you and the
organizations you work with or to learn
more about the Amazon future engineers
plus boot up initiative okay so if you
go to the boot up PD org website a
couple of things there one is right
there on the first page between now and
the end of March is information about
the Amazon future engineer boot up
initiative where you can just click on
the apply now start an application no
cost to apply very simple to apply you
know we'd love to see a lot of districts
do that
second thing you'll see is if you click
on the curriculum tab and Jared could
certainly tell you all about this but if
you click on the curriculum tab you will
see and free you know incredible
resources not only for teachers but for
students so this is really student
facing curriculum with video support
coder resources lots of you know
extension activities and almost every
lesson has multiple debugging activities
where students can try and fix the code
you know something's wrong with the code
those resources are available for free
for anyone and you know the great news
is that more and more people around the
world are using those resources because
of their quality and because of their
comprehensiveness and so we encourage
people to take a look at those resources
and you can also get in touch with any
of us via that website you know with
questions or comments or feedback we've
strive to do better every day and we'd
love to get your input and with that
that concludes this episode of the CSK
eight podcast I really hope you enjoyed
this episode and I hope you consider
sharing it with other administrators mr.
friendly reminder that the show notes
can be found by clicking in the
description in the app that you're
listening to this on or by visiting
jared O'Leary comm and clicking on the
CSKA podcast page now next week I unpack
some scholarship I'm going to actually
be talking about the sea s visions
framework which has been put out by cs4
all and then the following week I'm
actually going to interview two out of
the three authors of that paper so stay
tuned for the next couple weeks for some
awesome unpacking scholarship episode
and interview thank you all so much for
taking the time to listen this episode I
hope you all have a wonderful week and I
will talk to you later
Guest Bio
Clark Merkley is the Executive Director of BootUp PD, a nonprofit focused on preparing and empowering teachers and implementing elementary coding programs nationwide.
Immediately prior to joining BootUp PD, Clark was Chief Operating Officer & General Counsel of Emerald Data Solutions, which provides the industry-leading eGovernance solution – BoardDocs – that is used by over 1500 school districts across the United States. Clark served as a school board member for the School District of Kettle Moraine in Wisconsin, has served on several nonprofit boards and has also served in human resources for Nebo School District, a large school district in central Utah serving over 31,000 students. Clark has also practiced law and represented several nonprofits, health care organizations, and businesses in their corporate and regulatory matters.
In the middle of his professional career, Clark was a junior high teacher at Springville Junior High School in Springville, Utah where he taught Algebra, Physical Science, Earth Science, and Law & Government. He loved being in the classroom and helping to shape the minds of future lifelong learners. He considers teaching to be the greatest of all professions.
Clark received his J.D. and MBA from the University of Chicago and his undergraduate degree in Zoology from Brigham Young University. He and his wife, Sheryl, are the parents of five and the grandparents of nine.
Resources/Links Relevant to This Episode
Other podcast episodes that were mentioned or are relevant to this episode
A Conversation with Professional Programmer and Educator, Dave Briccetti
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In this episode I provide a framework for how districts and educators can get started with computer science education for free.
Suggestions for Starting or Expanding Your Program with Dianne O'Grady-Cunniff
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