See, What Had Happened with Andre Daughty

See, What Had Happened with Andre Daughty
Jared O'Leary
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In this interview with Andre Daughty, we discuss how an educator in Andre’s life sparked a passion that led to a career in education, representation in education, thoughts on what’s holding back the field of education, setting boundaries when communicating with people who are being disrespectful, taking care of yourself to prevent burnout, the Mamba mentality, Andre’s intentionality with improving as a public speaker, the importance of play in learning, growing a podcast audience, and so much more.

  • Welcome back to another episode of the

    csk8 podcast my name is Jared O'Leary

    each week of this podcast is either an

    interview with a guest or multiple guest

    or a solo episode where I unpack some

    scholarship in relation to Computer

    Science Education in this week's episode

    I'm having a conversation with Andre

    Dowdy we discuss how an educator in

    Andre's life sparked a passion that led

    to a career in education representation

    and education thoughts on what's holding

    back the field of Education setting

    boundaries when communicating with

    people who are being disrespectful

    taking care of yourself to prevent

    burnout the Mamba mentality Andre's

    intentionality with improving as a

    public speaker the importance of play in

    learning growing a podcast audience and

    so much more as always you can find

    links to some of the things that we

    mentioned in the show notes which is

    available at jaredeliry.com click on the

    podcast tab or by clicking the link in

    the description on the app that you're

    listening to this on while you're on my

    website you also find a bunch of gaming

    and drumming content and a ton more

    Computer Science Education content

    including link to boot up PD which is

    the non-profit that I work for and that

    powers this podcast if you haven't

    checked it out yet make sure you visit

    pd.org to see the free curriculum that I

    created and learn more about the paid

    professional development but with all

    that being said we will now begin with

    an introduction by Andre hi friends

    Andre Dowdy here from Oklahoma City

    Oklahoma here's the cool thing I never

    thought in a million years I would be a

    teacher that just was not my style that

    just was not my thing I was a kid always

    in class making the Beats you know I was

    the kid who could whistle without moving

    his mouth

    I was the kid always humming and singing

    I could do the work of course you know

    because we can do the work I can do the

    work but after the work I was bored I

    was the kid not wanting to go to those

    centers and those reading centers and

    listening centers over and over again so

    how we make beats and I would be that

    distraction and get kicked out of class

    it was one day that I found the love for

    music and being inside a van it switched

    and changed my whole life little did I

    know at that time I could play eight

    instruments without any musical Theory

    without learning music I could just hear

    it because my mom is a musician and I

    could pick up on the sights and the

    sounds that I heard over time and that

    started my journey I was gonna be the

    next Stevie Wonder went to an HBCU

    called Langston University the only one

    in Oklahoma that's where the Gap Band

    has come from Charlie Wilson it's come

    from there as well and I was going to be

    the next Prince literally I could play

    the music I can make a CD but you can't

    in Oklahoma that's just not gonna happen

    there was not an Avenue for jazz so I

    wanted to be a teacher I wanted to

    inspire other students at the elementary

    level like that one teacher did for me

    and here's the secret that one teacher

    was my very first black male educator so

    I actually got to see me or a part of me

    the characteristics of me in him and I

    was like that's dope and so now I've

    been in education this is year 22. and I

    get the opportunity to inspire those

    from the elementary level all the way to

    and through the Collegiate post-grad

    level and get to help with Keynotes and

    conferences and and speaking the truth

    to power in education from not just a

    musical standpoint but from an

    elementary standpoint technology

    standpoint Equity standpoint of building

    the culture standpoint organization

    stand for all those things and I'm so

    glad to be here with you today what

    grade level was it when you've had your

    first black male educator 6 great and

    that's you know middle school because

    you're trying to find yourself you know

    you were at the elementary level and you

    were the Big Man on Campus big person on

    campus right then you go to sixth grade

    and middle school you're starting all

    over and the eighth graders are taller

    bigger more mature they're dunking on

    basketball goals you know and here I am

    the sixth grade kind of awkward nerd you

    could say who thought it was cool

    because I was cool at the other spot and

    then he showed me and not just me but he

    showed so many of us like man you can be

    cool in the skin that you're in if you

    like comic books Rock comic books if you

    like musicianship rocket but excel at it

    don't just say I like music but like

    it's words used to say anybody could be

    a drummer anybody I can go and find a

    drummer to play a gig anytime any given

    point because anybody can play on the

    two and the four and the one and three

    with the bass drum he said but the money

    comes being a percussionist so I don't

    want you to be a drummer I want you to

    be a percussionist because being a

    percussionist will get you gigs and at

    that time you know we're kids now we

    just want to be in the marching band and

    our marching band style was very similar

    to like an HBCU really performative

    dancing and whatever the pop song was

    you know adding that including that in

    your routine and that really struck and

    even until today it still sticks with me

    you know drummers are a diamond doesn't

    but percussionists percussionists are

    different and he nailed on the head on

    that because once when we learned how to

    read music and understood the why behind

    like to play a xylophone or marimba to

    to use that and to play piano keyboards

    anybody could be a drummer but can you

    actually play different genres can you

    actually swing it right can you read

    music and play what you don't feel but

    what is on the paper he retired and this

    is how dope this teacher his name is Mr

    Reginald irons this is how Dopey was

    I've got married to my middle school

    school he was at the wedding he had both

    of us in class and he and his wife

    showed up at our wedding and I thought I

    still to this day like that just blows

    my mind that an educator who probably

    had so many other things to do on a

    Saturday in band for him to come to our

    wedding or for him to help me get a

    scholarship so when he retired about two

    Springs ago you know the word got out on

    social media he was this was his last

    year my wife and I made sure to show up

    to his retirement ceremony and took

    pictures with him and hugged them and

    thanked him and he's like I knew it all

    along it was in you you just needed

    someone to help pull it out of me

    and Reginald

    yeah inspiration and being bad so I'm

    curious what about school up until that

    point did not work well for you yeah it

    was never connected and I think that's

    one of the things that we as Educators

    sometimes forget yeah we don't connect

    why we are doing what we are doing or

    why we are learning those objections

    those standards those expectations those

    competencies whatever you want to call

    them the example that I always share is

    in math we talk about what slope is and

    we're trying to find an intercept you

    know slope intercept okay great but you

    just do it for the grade and then you do

    it just to keep moving but we never

    really connect slope to in real life you

    may one time have a backyard and when it

    rains that backyard May flood but if

    your backyard is not graded right with

    the correct slope that water will just

    sit and so sometimes we as Educators we

    don't connect why we are teaching to

    their real life and I think that's what

    he did he was like man those beats that

    you make it who's the intricate and

    here's what they look like now this is

    how you can use this in this Miranda

    this is how you can use this with a drum

    set or this 16th note that you paired

    with a 30 second if you were to use your

    embouchure and the saxophone you could

    do it this way like he connected a world

    that I had only heard of inside of my

    brain and I really am appreciative of

    like the Educators who are now making

    that change again and they're connecting

    what they're teaching to why they're

    teaching right I've often heard like

    especially in math education like people

    complain I learned the quadratic

    equation or quadratic formula but I

    didn't learn how to balance a checkbook

    like I want to actually do something

    that is like useful to me today yeah and

    then the funny thing is like I had one

    student so I Mentor students you know

    here and there especially doing code and

    one of them was like man I'm really

    trying to find like what is the cheapest

    car because I'm about to be in high

    school like I need a car what is the

    cheapest price for the do I get a 2010

    for this price or do I go a 2008 with

    more of the bells and whistles for this

    price he literally like had a Google

    sheet of all the pros and the kind yeah

    and I was like dude this is fantastic

    you doing upper level math you just

    don't know it yeah and he's like nah nah

    I'm like no really really you are trying

    to solve for x based on these variables

    and it didn't connect with him I said

    ask your teacher go take that to you you

    know email your teacher let them know

    and then he showed it to the teacher and

    his teacher was like this is calculus

    he had no idea he's like wait what like

    yeah you are doing upper level math this

    is calculus that you're doing and it

    blue is mine so I'm really hoping that

    we as Educators for those who perhaps

    who aren't doing it I hope that we

    reconnect that why am I teaching you how

    to read and why is it important to be

    able to read the fine print and

    inferences and connecting that to if you

    were to sign a contract or if you are

    about to get a loan or if you want to

    buy a house and they give you all those

    papers for the mortgage you're gonna

    have to infer a lot of that reading yeah

    I'm just making those connections yeah I

    had some really good Educators in my

    life and some really problematic

    experiences in education and both of

    them have informed how I worked with

    kids in the classroom and like whether

    it was learning what to do or what not

    to do so I'm curious for you like how of

    like both your positive and negative

    experiences and education kind of

    informed your own approach to education

    I agree with you 100 you can get some

    learning from any and everything I mean

    I live in Oklahoma City I would be lying

    if I told you that I never had a racist

    teacher I had quite a few and in our

    mind this teaches racist this teacher

    should not be teaching at this school

    full of all these minorities because

    this teacher is flat out right and I

    remember in my head saying that I'm

    gonna be a teacher I'm never going to do

    it like that or even when I made the

    switch from being a music Major to an

    elementary education major that was one

    of the first things that popped up in my

    mind I am not going to do it that way I

    am I I recall I remember how it felt to

    be called the n-word I remember how it

    felt to voice concerns to principles and

    to other teachers and they dismissed and

    so using that same remembrance of how it

    felt then I keep that you know in mind

    for my students how do they feel are

    their voices not heard I want to be that

    safe space that brave space for them

    when they do have those issues those

    concerns and be there for them like some

    of those teachers weren't for me and

    then on the other hand man I really have

    some joke teachers and the way that they

    would teach really help a lot of our

    students some of them weren't as

    traditional a lot of them were you know

    stay quiet 60 Minutes be quiet go work

    here's instructional here's your

    independent turn it in go on you know a

    lot of them are like that but a lot of

    them like show us that Shakespeare

    wasn't the only genius you know that

    there are some of these other books that

    were really dope or there were some of

    these current events and how those

    current events really actually helped us

    become who we are today so yeah I had

    the good and the bad and kind of like

    what you just said you kind of mesh it

    together you fool oh I like how they did

    this here I like how they did it yeah I

    hated how they did that so I'm gonna

    remix it to do it this way and then you

    know it helps practice with your yeah

    one of the things that I've talked about

    quite a bit on this podcast is how in

    computer science education they're

    constantly talking about how there's not

    enough women in the field in CS in

    particular and I agree totally on board

    with that it's underrepresented but

    what's not often talked about is how in

    the elementary space which is where I've

    tended to work in k6 and K-8

    environments it's an abundance of women

    and so the underrepresented people are

    males in particular so like in most of

    the schools that I was at I was the only

    male presenting individual in the

    elementary school and because like 86

    percent of elementary teachers are white

    women so your comments about like not

    having like a male black educator until

    sixth grade like I didn't have one until

    my undergrad like one of the percussion

    professors and he was one of my favorite

    professors like actually when he was in

    hospice like went to see him and say

    goodbye and whatnot like profound impact

    on me and I'm getting choked up thinking

    about them but that lack of

    representation that in that homogenized

    space in the elementary space like it

    can be problematic like how would you

    recommend as a field we could

    potentially address that or change that

    yeah it does matter big time my wife was

    a second grade teacher and when my wife

    first started her career she was the

    only black teacher in that school and it

    was with purpose the principal had her

    own purpose it wasn't like a diversity

    hire but the principal realized we got

    to get more Educators in that building

    that look like the students they serve

    right and so just imagine going up and

    down the hall and all of the teachers

    and all of the parents and all of the

    students seeing my wife and they're like

    she looks like me she has beautiful big

    hair like me or she's got fruit lips

    like me or she looks her skin comes like

    it made a difference but she would get

    every day she would get like pictures

    because once again we're talking second

    grader you know she would get pictures

    splitting under a door of Hi how are you

    doing you know how like they're walking

    and they wave and I mean she was almost

    like a superstar because everybody wants

    to be in a class because she felt looked

    different and then what I loved about

    that school was that she gave them an

    opportunity to learn about herself and

    her culture and how she was raised and

    then they got to learn from her she got

    to learn from them and I really think

    that really matters in my classroom when

    I was in those classes I remember

    parents saying oh he needs a good father

    figure oh he needs a good male influence

    we need to switch that person to his

    class and then next thing I know they

    were trying to put 40 and 50 kids in my

    room because they needed a male figure

    no what with the parents I'm trying to

    say was you look like my son you go

    through some of the same struggles like

    my son and my son can learn from you and

    I think there's some importance to that

    I'm grateful to be one of the people who

    get to have those conversations like

    with Arlene leaders and our

    administrators on that like where are

    you recruiting are you recruiting

    tourism we are out there there are a lot

    of Educators who identify as male are

    you looking for them or are you just

    going to your tried and true colleges to

    recruit there once again I went to an

    HBCU Langston University I remember man

    my freshman year right I'm still doing

    the generals I'm still you know knocking

    out my generals and they had a teacher

    and I'm like okay let me just go and see

    you know they say you get extra credit

    I'm being real they said you get extra

    credit if you go so I put on the Sunday

    Best extra credit I go and there was

    like seven different districts from

    Texas who had showed up at this teacher

    fair and they were like we will pay you

    program and we will give you a twenty

    thousand dollar moving bonus wow to get

    you here and this was

    and they gave me a packet a manila

    folder and I opened it up and it was a

    contract it was here's some apartments

    to live in like they put that thing

    together I was nervous because I was

    like this is seventy thousand dollars I

    remember talking to my mom at weekend

    like Mom look what do you think and she

    was like this is legit they want you bad

    enough and so I remember going back and

    calling because back then you couldn't

    really email email was still kind of you

    know working I remember calling them and

    the the director of I guess recruiting I

    don't know who the person was she said

    we need more blackmail Educators and so

    when we found out that there is 16 and

    cheap we pulled out all the stocks

    because we knew it was a need and so I

    say all that to say I wonder in our

    educational areas and in our districts

    or at our colleges like when we see

    those areas of me are we willing to pull

    out all the stuff I know here locally in

    Oklahoma City the area of need was to

    get Educators who could speak Spanish

    and so one school district here

    literally flew to Spain and grabbed like

    much they offered or paid them but 37 of

    them came back to Oklahoma to teach and

    so I'm truly wondering for those

    Elementary For Those computer science

    like they're out there but are we

    willing to go and recruit them or are we

    just going to let them settle that's

    phenomenal honestly really happy to hear

    that like so the last year that I was in

    the classroom was 2017. before I joined

    the nonprofit that I've been working for

    and I was making just under 45 000 and

    they were counting a doctorate with

    several years of experience so like to

    be making less than what you were making

    in the late 90s like that's phenomenal

    that you were able to do that and I

    didn't even go that was that's the sad

    part of the story man oh I got scared

    and I didn't go to Texas but a lot of

    the homies did and a lot of homies still

    live in Texas and I can only imagine 50

    stacking some money I can only imagine

    because like you said there are so many

    people here in Oklahoma with masters

    with doctor and ah they probably barely

    you know tipping that 50 through 70

    range right one of my parents friends is

    a teacher in Oklahoma and yeah it's the

    pay out there is pretty comparable to

    what it is in Arizona where I live it

    doesn't pay very well like you go to

    another state and easily double what

    you're making in like Oklahoma or in

    Phoenix yeah that's why a lot of our

    Educators here in Oklahoma are moving

    either to an online space or just

    quitting and going towards Texas you can

    get twenty thousand dollars quicker

    faster easier you're still doing the

    hard work you're still doing the

    workload the paperwork all of that but

    now you can actually afford to be a

    teacher in Texas Texas is blowing up for

    that reason yeah yeah six eight school

    districts all over the place now just

    because people are moving that way and

    teachers are going that way yeah and

    they're doing a great job of recruiting

    like even in my undergrad in at Arizona

    State there were people from Texas who

    had come and recruit music educators

    like it was a well-known space to go if

    you wanted to be valued as an educator

    like if Texas was one of those States

    yeah yeah I can't blame them playing the

    long game just like any sports team

    right yeah sports team you want your

    best free agent and so you're not going

    to go to a Kevin Durant with the low

    number or LeBron James with a little

    number if you know that that is a need

    for your department or for your District

    or for your community you're gonna you

    know at least some of that money and

    that's what Texas has been doing yeah I

    can't fault my friends who moved to

    Texas and I ain't seen them you know we

    see them social media you know things

    like that but I can't hate on them at

    all I'm curious what your answer will be

    to this maybe it'll add on to what we're

    just talking about maybe it's something

    different but what do you feel is

    holding back Educators or the field and

    then what's something we can actually do

    about it a lot of the systems and the

    administrators since I had the

    opportunity to like be in those meetings

    and see how the vendors vendor their

    products and their services a lot of

    those services and products really

    aren't teaching it's just follow this

    book read this script do it this way and

    there are so many of us as teachers who

    just say give me the time to teach you

    want me to teach reading to these second

    graders who have never read or to be

    second graders who have never been in a

    school until this year of covert because

    of covet and just let me teach them

    don't tell me how to teach it but just

    let me teach it we can assess the same

    way I'm okay with that but give me the

    agency to teach these students what they

    need to know and some districts some

    bazel series some curriculums they're

    not doing it they're handcuffed our

    teachers which then hurts our students

    that's personally from what I have

    observed and then I've also seen it

    where our systems are set up where they

    say go ahead and try explore discover go

    for it I want you to teach your way go

    for it but then they don't give the

    teachers time enough to implement that

    new way they want results instantly and

    education results hardly ever happen

    instantly I mean there's anomalies but

    kind of like once again going back to

    sports if you have a new coaching team a

    new coach and a new staff for the team

    it's going to take almost two to three

    years to implement that system and then

    you can assess it and sometimes our

    systems want four months and expect you

    know tremendous amounts of change in

    that time so that's personal

    systemically one size does not fit all

    and there are some times that one size

    wants to fit all also systemically there

    are certain people in education who are

    running shows of education but that have

    never been a part of Education yeah and

    I'm seeing that hurt students and

    teachers in schools in education and

    then that's when it gets political

    that's when the Kickbacks happen because

    my friend and my buddy is the CEO of

    this so we want to bring them in with

    this government money and it gets really

    really messy and then it gets political

    from there to everything from what is

    culturally responsive teaching and

    learning CRT versus what is critical

    race Theory CRT and then it gets really

    messy and once again if we had people in

    those positions who were teachers or who

    are Educators then they could

    differentiate some of these acronyms a

    little better

    and even us as teachers like there's a

    lot of acronyms that we need to update

    ourselves oh yeah but that systemically

    that is where I'm seeing is the biggest

    concerns at first I thought it was going

    to be covet you know post covet how do

    we do a brand new world of Education now

    that our teachers and our students know

    that they can learn online and they can

    do it effectively online but nah we've

    kind of thrown that to the side and now

    it's really political of what books

    should be banned and why should they be

    banned and this is a history book and

    one of the ones that I scratched my head

    on and then I in a very peaceful and

    loving way admonished certain people

    they wanted to ban Michelle Obama's book

    called being and I was like

    because why if you read the book she is

    literally there's no

    where's the audiobook I read the book

    nothing is there

    nothing is there it makes me infer that

    there's another reason why you want that

    book banned and that's the conversations

    that I don't mind having with

    individuals or with districts because

    let's get to the root of the problem

    let's not attack the branch or the limbs

    or the leaves let's get to the root

    let's get to the soil and if we need to

    till it and turn it over let's tilt it

    and turn it over if we really need to

    uproot the tree and just put it in some

    different soil let's do that but let's

    get we got to get to the root there's no

    reason that book should be banned in a

    high school that that was ludicrous but

    it was a conversation worth having I

    think I can guess who they voted for

    what kind of party based off of that

    it's amazing how political things have

    gotten and how much of an influence has

    had on classrooms yeah even here locally

    in Norman Oklahoma that's where the

    Oklahoma Sooners play University of

    Oklahoma is

    a teacher knew the Banned Book

    guidelines so the teacher said okay

    here's a QR code you can Google this too

    here's the QR code if you want to read

    some of these books and see why they

    aren't shouldn't really be banned go for

    it and so put the QR code up students

    went to it some officials came after

    this teacher and I think the teacher

    resigned wow and this was within the

    last two weeks wow yeah it's gotten

    really political for no reason in my

    opinion unless you okay what I share

    with my friends because I live in

    Oklahoma and Oklahoma is a very

    conservative country I totally get that

    I've got friends and family who are

    conservatives I got friends and family

    who are liberal and I'm like the bridge

    I don't mind being the bridge because we

    got to have these conversations in order

    to grow this side is living in this

    bubble this side is living in this

    bubble and they cannot meet in the

    middle so I try my best to create those

    conversations or those questions those

    probing questions conversation started

    and a lot of what I have observed is

    that some of my friends in Oklahoma

    their history of our U.S history has

    been a fairy tale of U.S history yep it

    has been Disney fied

    which is a great thing because Disney

    makes you feel good you know by the end

    of the movie everybody is happily ever

    after but from the other side or the

    other side of the track so from a

    different perspective it's never been a

    Disney fired version right and so having

    those conversations that's what I'm

    seeing more of which is really

    interesting because I too would I would

    struggle with that you see what I'm

    saying like imagine if your entire life

    you heard the best instrument in the

    world is the percussion even though both

    of us could say it is but you that's all

    you've heard your entire life there are

    no other instruments they're percussion

    instruments is the best and then one day

    you hear a symphony with no percussion

    or quartet and it just blows your mind

    and then they say well yeah you know

    these stream instruments could be

    considered the best for orchestra music

    if it would mess you it would mess up

    your thinking because for your entire

    life you've only heard it one way but

    now you're being exposed to a different

    weight and it's much easier to stay in

    that cognitive dissonance versus

    accepting it and growing from it and I

    believe that is what is happening here

    at least locally

    um with the conversations that I've had

    yeah I could see that like living in

    Phoenix like it's very similar in terms

    of mostly conservative we've had some

    interesting education laws that are

    racist in terms of like you're not

    allowed to speak Spanish unless you're

    it's a foreign language class I had

    kindergarten classes like 35 kids in it

    none of them spoke English and it would

    be illegal for me to say to sit down or

    hey let's all stand up if I said it in

    Spanish it would be illegal there's also

    laws like I think they changed it

    recently but when I was teaching it was

    something along the lines of you will

    not portray the homosexual lifestyle in

    a positive intent like it was really

    weirdly worded but like lots of weird

    stuff with it I I'm honestly not sure

    what to do about that with all these

    like influences going on in the

    classroom but then myself like

    politically I'm a registered independent

    so I try and hear both sides of the

    aisle and try and understand it but

    navigating those conversations has been

    difficult to like be able to seek to

    understand somebody else's perspective

    that I disagree with I'm curious how you

    have done that or might recommend others

    do that who are in these positions I

    don't mind thinking to understand my

    hard line draw the line in the sand is

    if you're homophobic if you're racist

    period Point Blank misogynistic period

    boy blank yep I'm not seeking to

    understand those terms we can discuss

    policy all you want but as soon as the

    policy infers some racial things some

    homophobic things hard stop just being

    brutally honest with you the last two or

    three days my social media has been on

    Flames because I pointed out the

    comparisons of the Bible Belt in

    Oklahoma Christians as I am one and how

    a certain savior Paid a Debt for

    Humanity similar to how this government

    allowed to pay a debt for a lot of

    people some of my Conservative Christian

    people went off awf they went off on me

    man and a lot of DMS a ton of them Andre

    how dare you how dare you and once again

    I'll listen to understand and I don't

    mind us having that conversation but as

    soon as I feel or I see or I infer that

    you're not talking policy anymore you're

    now moving towards this race is better

    than that race or this gender is better

    than that gender or those people I had a

    lot of those people in the comments and

    I said pause and I always say it really

    respectfully at first we're at a

    stalemate and just like in chess neither

    side is going to hear each other anymore

    we're at a stalemate so I'll just

    quietly bow out and let you believe how

    you believe because chances are our

    conversation is not going to change your

    perspective right your perspective has

    been that way for at least 20 plus years

    I'm not changing that but I did want to

    lift it up to you if they continue to

    try to convince or manipulate or

    continue like most times after I say

    that the majority of them will say well

    great discussion thank you some of them

    will double down on a few words and then

    that's when I lived up to them this is

    what you said we call it pulling

    receipts do y'all call it that in

    Oklahoma I mean in uh Arizona no I

    haven't heard that term yes colon

    receipts is that like you said this long

    time ago but now you're saying that no

    let me go back and grab that receipt

    from what you said

    and give it to you because this is what

    you said and then that's when I normally

    lift up the racism and the homophobia

    and all of that like this is what you're

    saying now this is some work that you

    need to do because you said it you said

    screenshot this is what you said you

    know

    I won't blast you out and everybody in

    the world but this is some work you need

    to work on because this is what you said

    I need you to work on your biases and

    most times they're really appreciative

    some of them didn't even notice it you

    know it just yeah sometimes I mean other

    times they double down and triple down

    and then that's when I warn my friends

    my family of them because there's no

    room in 2022 all Races should be called

    out period Point Blank you know if

    you're homophobic and the person said my

    pronouns this and you still choose to

    use different pronouns you should be

    called out and be held accountable and

    we give them grace and mercy but at the

    same time if you willingly are choose

    thing to do this that and the other you

    should be held accountable we pull

    receipts man I like that phrase yeah I

    wish I could take credit for it but I

    cannot I do believe that's coming from

    our lgbtq plus community in Atlanta they

    have such a rich culture and some of the

    phrases that they create it permeates

    through the black culture and everybody

    ends up Phantom and I don't know it's

    definitely one of them that I heard from

    like the Real Housewives of Atlanta and

    you know some of those episodes like

    that yeah

    yeah how do you take care of yourself

    like with engaging in heavy topics like

    in social media especially if people are

    Anonymous on Twitter they can be

    heavy-handed at times and highly

    inappropriate because they think there's

    going to be little repercussions for it

    but then just in general being an

    educator especially now it's difficult

    so how do you try and prevent that

    burnout I'm still working on that

    I think a lot of educators are still

    working on that one thing that I did do

    in Kobe kind of helped me realize it was

    covet allowed so many people just to

    slow down and stop and breathe and kind

    of reset what things were because at one

    time it for me it was I want to help

    this school help that school help the

    school go to this conference help the

    school keynote over here help this help

    and I was such on the go I was starting

    to miss some of the things that were

    important so it kind of helped me slow

    down just a little and I appreciate it

    now every Friday I try my best to have a

    self-care day and for me that could be

    something as simple as watching YouTube

    videos on all of my watch lists that you

    know oh that looks interesting going

    down the rabbit hole of this that is the

    other on Tick Tock or playing

    PlayStation I don't get to play it very

    often but when I do I have a good time

    and so just trying to find those moments

    to pull away get away from Tech get away

    from work and just re-centering myself

    in whatever way another thing that I do

    every morning I exercise weekends I take

    off weekends are like my weekends but

    Monday through Friday man I'm hitting

    that gym I'm hitting it hard just to

    ground myself like you said it's a lot

    of heavy work and sometimes you find

    that you can't shift perspective you see

    some of your friends some of your family

    who are just racist and it hurts your

    heart because you've known them for x

    amount of years and they've never ever

    said or felt that way and now they say

    and they feel that way and once when you

    confront them they stand firm on that

    feeling and you say to yourself well

    I can no longer be with you I can no

    longer hang around you I I can no longer

    support your thinking in that way and

    that's heavy that's hurtful that that's

    emotionally it puts a drain on you so

    being able to pull away and just to

    reset to rest to relax some of my

    teacher friends the way that they do it

    they go shopping

    I've seen a lot of people on Amazon and

    seeing a lot of Amazon packages in this

    house my wife who does that I've seen

    them also like try new hobbies you know

    pickleball never heard of it it was

    never played in the hood but all of a

    sudden there's a pickleball court maybe

    about 10-15 minutes away and I've heard

    a lot of my teacher friends saying they

    want to try pickleball just once again

    given the opportunity to pull away from

    that how do you deal with it man so many

    of what you just said like I yesterday I

    I did like a drum stream so myself

    practicing like trying to just help

    people here's how I practice here's how

    you might practice but before that I did

    an Elden ring stream so it was like me

    trying to show hey look you can have fun

    playing video games and not like rage

    quit and throw your controller through

    the window kind of a thing like so I do

    a lot of that I also do work out like I

    I have a tie bag downstairs so I do Muay

    Thai I do I built a stall bar with my

    dad so I can like work on gymnastics

    strength training stuff like I try my

    best to be as healthy as I can because

    especially reading and writing and

    engaging in like Equity related work

    like there's a lot of things to unpack

    like I worked on a curriculum for the

    win River Reservation in Wyoming which

    has the northern Arapahoe and Eastern

    Shoshone tribes and when you actually go

    through the history of like what

    happened to them in that reservation

    like it's so disheartening like it's

    it's saddening to see like this is how

    we treated other people like as a

    country as the government like so yeah I

    trying to have many different things

    that I can do to just help center myself

    and focus on things that I can control

    while still engaging in the difficult

    work yeah and one of the best things

    best piece of devices I got from it was

    a student student was on Twitter and you

    know how you go through the Twitter

    threads something's viral and you want

    to read the comments because the

    comments is the best part of the you

    know the buyer or whatever and this one

    student was like you and I are both way

    too smart on this subject I'm not going

    to waste my time with me and that was it

    and then the other person perhaps the

    troll kept attacking and the student

    kept replying you and I are way too

    smart for this I'm not gonna waste my

    time with this it hit me because

    oftentimes I'm really you know on social

    media social justice Warrior I'm like

    but here's researcher here's stats you

    know here's a website and here's a video

    here's a tick tock here's somebody would

    think

    the entire time I'm like they just want

    to argue so let me just keep scrolling

    it's not worth the fight locally right

    here in Oklahoma right now a lot of

    Online Social Media stuff has been

    minerals versus Lincoln Riley you know

    was Lincoln Riley wrong why did Lincoln

    Riley leave Oklahoma Lincoln Lincoln and

    you can just see the common threads and

    it's not worth it he chose what he chose

    it was a business decision he got free

    personal jet that's what he wanted to do

    it's no longer worth people commenting

    it's not working the people who are

    baiting and trolling perhaps this is

    what they're doing so for me one of the

    best stress reliefs ever is to not

    comment and just say okay that's what

    they want to believe all right and it's

    like you said it's a fine balance of it

    because there are some times that you do

    need to step in and speak up and say

    before this becomes more misinformation

    and More Lies here's the resource I'd

    like for you to read or here's the thing

    yeah yeah it's hard being somebody who

    like identifies through and through as

    an educator like somebody who wants to

    help people learn things like when it

    comes to problematic Behavior it's hard

    to sometimes be like to not say hey

    here's a resource that can help you when

    the people are just not willing to

    engage in a discussion like if it's more

    of a monologue that I'm trying to have a

    dialogue like at some point it's just

    like okay I provided some resources I

    hope eventually you get to a place where

    you are able to dive deeper into it yeah

    and I'll give them two I'll give them

    two chances we'll dialogue two rounds

    and if the needle's not shifting or if

    you're not even open to the needle

    shifting all right it's been great

    having a conversation with me I look

    forward to more because you're not

    you're just putting more weight and

    pressure on you and some people are

    doing it just to troll other people they

    just want to read and so you're speaking

    your truth and you're speaking your

    voice and you're giving opportunities

    for learning they're just gonna have to

    pick it up on their own time so this is

    a little bit of a shift but what you're

    just talking about with like the

    pressures and whatnot I'm curious what

    led to your interest in becoming a

    public speaker because like it for years

    has been touted locally as like a

    greater fear than the fear of death like

    speaking publicly so what led to that

    interest because that seems like a high

    pressure kind of thing to do yeah as you

    can tell she'll listen in here I don't

    mind talking I was always in trouble for

    it you know in the comments section of

    every report card right they always give

    you the sandwich model you know Andre

    it's such a pleasure to be in class

    Andre talks too much but I raise

    everything is amazing you know I was

    literally that kid yeah and I remember

    my first year of teaching we had to go

    to some PD and I remember sitting and I

    heard the speaker speak his name was Dr

    jawanza and he opened with this quote

    and that quote shifted my entire

    philosophy and education he said If You

    observe student they will teach you how

    to teach them and then he just sat and

    for me it felt like five years that he

    just let us chew on it and process but

    I'm sure it was in five years but the

    more and more I thought about it the

    more more he explained it he's like your

    students will teach you everything you

    need to know you gotta sit and listen

    and I thought I could do it I could do

    I've got experiences and stories and

    strategies I can do that and I knew that

    I could do that I was just never really

    giving much opportunities and it wasn't

    until many many years later that I got a

    few opportunities at conferences and the

    feedback was overwhelmingly positive and

    then one person said have you ever

    considered doing this master and I

    hadn't I knew I could but I just didn't

    know what how do you take those steps

    like how does you know Simon select

    become Simonson like Renee brownie like

    what does that look like you know is it

    someone help them along the way is it

    that they were grinding and then finally

    had the bid come up I did not know and

    then doing workshops nationally and you

    know sharing content online and social

    media and having those discussions it's

    kind of started to work in the favor but

    in my mind I knew I could do that and

    now here's the coolest thing that I

    always tell students the thing that you

    normally get in trouble for is your gift

    that's normally your talent that's

    normally the thing that can help you

    make a lot of money and so the thing

    that I used to get in trouble for was my

    mouth where are my Beats where my

    musical influences and my hums and my

    stats and my talking to my friends and

    my talking and over explaining and being

    thorough oh that ended up becoming my

    talent because now I had a keynote I can

    talk and explain different perspectives

    in different ways I can use musical cues

    and musical ideas and relate that in a

    way where not just my musical teachers

    can understand the students but not just

    students parents but not just parents

    grade levels and so yeah that's kind of

    where the speaker came from and I

    embrace it I'm sure just like everyone

    else I get a little nervous uh when you

    first get on that stage and you look out

    in the car in the crowd and like you

    know they're only going to give you two

    minutes to pay attention to see if

    you're worth something and if I'm

    talking about it or you know on the

    phone checking emails whatever it is

    those fears are always still there as

    well but my message matters and I

    deserve to be on that stage to help

    Educators learn and I'm all for that for

    that nervousness one of the things that

    has helped me with like presenting at

    conferences is I heard somebody on a

    podcast say they like to reframe those

    emotions as excitement it's like energy

    for you rather than like oh butterflies

    and nervousness like the scary thing but

    as oh I'm excited to do this yeah and

    the fear of the unknown I liken it into

    a comedian so what I've been finding out

    in these last four or five years is that

    the way that a comedian approaches is

    her day one hour set is the same way

    most speakers prepare for their

    presentation or their keynote or their

    Ted Talk they start off in the small

    clubs and they work on that material

    same as Educators they smart they start

    off researching the material and

    condensing it into biteable chunks and

    then they share those chunks on Twitter

    or with their GroupMe chat or something

    same with comedians where they go into

    the little small clubs and they got the

    book they got the notepad and they're

    working out their material in real life

    and then they build that from a five to

    ten minute set then a 10 to 20 minute

    then a 20 to 30 and over the year of

    practicing now they've got a full hour

    that they can present to Netflix HBO

    Showtime wherever it may be it's the

    exact same thing with speakers we get a

    topic of material some subject something

    that we are really good in and then we

    build it over time and then you perfect

    it and now you've got so to say like a

    special a keynote that everyone hasn't

    heard but maybe just small pockets and

    then you develop it all over again if

    you do it all over again and the nerves

    is will they be appreciative to the hard

    work that you did to share that topic

    and that's the excitement once when you

    cut your first joke in that opener and

    you introduce yourself and then the

    audience kind of gives you a smile or

    sometimes they give you a laugh then you

    take that deep breath like okay this is

    let's go yeah I was looking at your

    website like looking at some of the

    keynote options that you have on there

    and I'm curious like one of them that

    stood out was the Mamba mentality what

    is the Mamba mentality and then how does

    that inform your own approach to

    education yeah that came from the death

    of uh Kobe Bryant so I will put the

    disclaimer out right right now I'm from

    Oklahoma City Oklahoma we Thunder up

    here our rival our Nemesis the team that

    would beat us when we had Kevin Durant

    Russell Westbrook and James Harden was

    the Lakers so I was not a Kobe fan at

    all we Thunder up here we would boo Kobe

    now later on I would you know go to

    appreciate his work ethic and what

    changed it for me was the Olympics I

    think they were called a redeemed and

    the story of the documentary LeBron

    Dwyane Wade mellow Jason Kidd you know

    all the great of this redeemed team

    Dwight Howard they all show up to

    practice at eight in the morning for a

    nine o'clock practice and they are fresh

    clothes fresh outfits you know laughing

    and giggling coming in with their power

    drink and their protein bars or whatever

    and they walk in the gym and they see

    Kobe Bryant on the floor in a torrential

    sweat and is like huh Kobe what you

    doing and Kobe's trainer workout coach

    whoever was there with him was like

    Kobe's been here since four and in that

    moment but Brian was like oh this is

    something different

    and so when they asked Kobe about it

    Kobe was like man practice is what we do

    together but my work time is where I get

    better and so the next practice 90 of

    the players were there at four in the

    morning with Coke and they were like if

    he working hard he ain't gonna outwork

    me and that was that Mamba mentality of

    you want to be successful you want your

    dreams to come true because we all have

    them but are you gonna do the bare

    minimum to get to it or are you going to

    add that extra and sacrifice to get to

    it because it is a sacrifice Kobe

    sacrificed sleep to be in the gym at

    four means that he was up at three

    meaning that he was in whatever car or

    transportation to get to that gym for a

    four o'clock practice and then after

    that he then went on to practice with

    the team and then after that he stayed

    behind after the practice is over to

    work on free throws and shooting so if

    we're talking to Mama mentality that

    could take place in any part of our life

    also reminds me

    Herbie Hancock talked about it in a

    Miles Davis documentary where Miles

    talked about rehearsal versus prac and

    he says don't you dare dare dare ever

    come to Miles Davis's rehearsal and then

    start practicing he said no you better

    learn your skills and learn what riffs

    you gonna play at home doing your

    practice because when we come to

    rehearsal we're there to rehearse that

    music and that's it don't you try new

    stuff in rehearsal that you didn't try

    in practice and I thought to myself oh

    that's heavy that is Rich that is

    phenomenal that is the monumentality of

    if we really want to become great in

    whatever we do in whatever part of life

    we're in bare minimum is rehearsal but

    what are you going to do in that

    practice time that alone time are you

    gonna sit on the TV and just watch TV

    you're gonna get up and practice you're

    gonna get up and build a plan are you

    going to research this that and the

    other to start your business students

    who want to be YouTubers great you're

    doing the research of watching YouTube

    but I are you going to get an LLC are

    you going to learn more about the

    YouTube creators conference are you

    gonna go I forgot what it's called with

    like the YouTuber con or yeah the

    podcast like there are all these

    different things that so many people

    want to do yep Mama mentality is I'm

    going to jump I'm gonna take that leap

    I'm going to take that risk I'm going to

    learn about it I'm going to grow from it

    that means I'm gonna get up an hour or

    two earlier I'm gonna get up an hour or

    two earlier to get that because that is

    the dream that I want to do yeah yeah so

    pretty much that's the keynote of it all

    and then of course there's some other

    stories in there to talk about how

    students and teachers have used that

    same idea and that same approach and how

    it's actually helping communities

    because of that approach that really

    resonates with me so there's a book by

    Tim Grover it's called winning and Tim

    Grover is like the was the trainer for

    Michael Jordan and for Kobe and so like

    very well known great at it and so in

    that book he specifically talks about

    the mentality what it actually takes and

    like how difficult it is is like having

    succeeded as a both a percussionist and

    music educator and then now in computer

    science like the amount of time and

    effort that went into refining that

    craft like I can't understate how many

    hours I put outside of the teaching time

    to get better at teaching or get better

    at playing or coding or whatever that's

    one of the reasons why I ask like this

    question is how do you practice or

    iterate on your abilities either as an

    educator as a speaker I'll share a

    secret that only my wife and maybe a few

    others know I'll share with your

    audience here when I listen to the

    keynote like at a conference I'm not

    listening to it as a keynote I literally

    pull out my notepad and I'm clocking it

    their intro was too many their first

    joke of this topic in this was from this

    time to this time they use this

    transition and I'm literally like

    drawing it out and mapping out their

    keynote yeah and then from there I study

    it and once again I got this from

    comedian Kevin Hart in one of his books

    he talked about that how he wanted to be

    a really great comedian so he listened

    to Chris Rock and he listened to some of

    the other greats and he just started

    studying them how did they set up the

    joke how did they add to the joke and

    then there was a punchline and then

    further down the way how did they do the

    call back to the joke to still make it

    effective and so I'm literally doing

    that as the key you know I'm sitting and

    I'm listening to the message but I'm

    really dissecting and analyzing every

    part how is the person standing on the

    stage was he she they just behind the

    podium did they walk across the stage

    did they jump off the stage and talk to

    the camera how many of them talk to the

    balcony versus just the front row I'm

    studying because I really want to be the

    best I can be in that because my

    information won't matter if I'm not

    connecting with so I've got to connect

    with them even to the point I've Got

    Friends and I run by a few jokes with

    them to say okay in the comedy world

    it's called tagging they tag a joke like

    I gave you a joke give me something that

    makes it better I'll share the joke with

    you you tell

    you that's funny my family

    some more the joke says something my

    friends wanted to do yoga after school

    and I was like now I'ma stay here

    yes there's something there my wife and

    my daughter and my kids they just looked

    at me like no no no Andre no and even my

    mom who normally gets a good corny joke

    she was like no I was like there's

    something there to that but it's

    cracking it knowing the first five

    minutes of the presentation is important

    because they want to know who you are I

    call it the theory of the size up

    anytime you meet somebody I have no

    evidence to this there's no dissertation

    to this there's no statistical data to

    represent this this is just what I've

    seen the first two to three minutes when

    somebody meets somebody else they size

    them up who are you what do you do are

    you better than me are you about The

    Flaunt that you're better than me or are

    you gonna come in where we're equal and

    within those two or three minutes they

    are sizing everything up how am I

    looking how am I dressing am I worth the

    time is this person worth my energy all

    of that good stuff so I know within the

    first three to five minutes I've got to

    do something to capture the eye

    and so I'm always studying when it comes

    to Keynotes like that as far as

    workshops very similar what's relevant

    now is equity but a lot of people don't

    want to hear Equity away from inside of

    education so what does Equity look like

    in language arts what is equity it's

    embedded kind of like how I used to be

    with tech integration right where a long

    time ago was all right here's curriculum

    here's Tech you know clickers Smart

    Boards you know but now you just put

    them together we just call it both of

    them but again and it's the same thing

    when it comes to workshops as far as

    that yeah that was the whole guts to get

    there but I think I got there yeah I

    know I like that I mean it's that's how

    like chess Grandmaster has become great

    at chess as they analyze other people

    who are great at chess so like if even

    if you're not able to attend the speech

    you could watch TED talks to figure out

    like which ones resonate well and why

    what is the timing of that because they

    have entire teams that go behind like

    the design of those talks and how it's

    delivered it's really smart yeah same

    with musicians I mean you think about it

    I'm sure you as a musician have said

    what made Phil Collins so epic in that

    drum solo if I can feel it coming in the

    air tonight like would they Rush with me

    I mean we can go down all these

    different percussionists and drummers

    like what made their drums sound better

    than this drum why did they use this

    Piccolo snare versus this time like

    analyzing the sounds and how that made

    the song even better yeah it's the same

    with I've seen so many educators are

    doing yeah what's coming to mind right

    now is uh there's a chick Korea and

    Steve Gad album called friends and like

    Steve Gad is just a phenomenal drummer

    can play some serious notes but in that

    album he doesn't overplay things and

    someone I listen to it like he'll just

    put something simple on that's just like

    that is exactly what needed to be played

    at that moment like with chick Cree just

    like banging away on keys in the

    background it's like if you haven't

    heard that album it's so good highly

    recommend it the ghost notes are

    everything yeah and you say to yourself

    but why

    yeah

    and then I throw my sticks down or I

    just turn off my piano my keyboard

    because I cannot get there I just

    but it's the same approach when it comes

    to education there are so many great

    teachers and teachers just in general

    who are studying other teachers who are

    looking at different strategies

    different ways and they're saying oh I

    like how they did this here pulling this

    greatness here this greatness here how

    does it fit my second grade how does it

    fit my ninth grade algebra 1 class how

    does it fit my account class how does it

    fit my Kinders you know that's what I

    love about education man we're all

    grabbing and taking and using to help

    our students some of the best teachers

    that I had one was an instructor at a

    Muay Thai MMA gym that I went to many

    years ago and he had no background in

    education but he was a phenomenal

    educator in terms of like helping people

    learn how to fight and then another one

    that I had a couple years ago we had our

    windows replaced and the main supervisor

    of like his team the way he taught his

    team members how to do something because

    there's a new guy on the job like it was

    really well done and I was just like I

    at one point I went to him and I was

    like I've been in education a while and

    you're like a better teacher than some

    of the teachers that I've worked with

    like you just did a really great job

    with that so if you find like places to

    look for not necessarily in a formal

    context so you can find Educators

    everywhere and some of the best teachers

    will never know they can teach loops

    around teachers of the years and and

    professors and principles of years and

    and they just do it because this is just

    what they do see we're here try to help

    others to grow and to learn that you had

    mentioned not having research on

    something but that actually gets that

    one of the questions I'd like to ask is

    what do you wish there was actually more

    research on that could inform your own

    practices okay so I've shifted in this

    right okay so background growing up I

    was very flexible whatever works best

    works best and so there were times that

    I didn't let the kids go outside for

    recess for an entire year now of course

    we went outside and did some

    instructional things outside where they

    would run and play but they were behind

    academically and so we can use use that

    extra 20 30 minutes and do some more

    reading approaches and reading

    strategies and learning this and more

    Center time and by the end of the year

    they could read and I mean just we got

    off like the bad school list we were

    second most improved in the state like

    all of the accolades from it but looking

    back on it these were fourth grade

    students who should have been outside

    playing and I hate that I robbed that

    from them because you can learn through

    play yeah and so I wish that that would

    happen more I had an opportunity man to

    do a workshop in Australia and so I'm

    there in Sydney when they had their big

    fires right before the start of Kobe too

    and so I'm there in Sydney and I'm

    presenting you know three-day Workshop

    let's go let's get going they're excited

    I'm excited one of the administrators

    comes up to me and says just to give you

    a quick reminder at 10 o'clock we have

    morning tea and I was like huh and they

    said yeah basically it's reset wait what

    it's like yeah we're gonna stop at 10

    o'clock and we're gonna have some

    muffins and some drinks and some tea and

    we're gonna have like a 20 to 30 minute

    morning tea and I'm like okay no big

    deal I'll adjust as need be and she said

    we're also going to have an afternoon

    tea wait what yeah I said okay so in my

    head you know I'm adjusting the day

    because I'm packed from the time we say

    go you know that our lunch is the only

    stop stopping point yeah and I loved it

    man I loved it yep they took walks I saw

    people doing yoga I saw others grab

    basketball and they were playing

    basketball I saw others just talking I

    mean all these different things for

    morning tea and I was like oh we have

    dropped this ball cause this ball right

    here America can really really use this

    our students get our high school

    students could use this suit our

    teachers

    could use morning tea could use

    afternoon tea I hate that we don't do

    that and I would love for us to try it

    so the one thing I would do is we would

    have more play more reset more morning

    tea for everybody Kinder all the way up

    through college just mandatory 30-minute

    break do whatever you need to do to

    relax what about you what would be the

    one thing you say that you like to

    change or adjust well I'll add on to

    that like that's something that I have

    learned so the last five years I've been

    working from home and so I'd like to do

    what's called the Pomodoro method where

    you like work for 50 minutes then you

    take a 10 minute break and you do that

    like every hour and so on that 10 minute

    break like I'll go play the drums behind

    me or I might go downstairs walk on the

    treadmill and just read a book or I

    might go meditate outside because being

    a pasty white ghastly complexion I need

    to get some sun so I can get some

    vitamin D so I have to intentionally go

    outside and actually exit my house like

    I love that the idea of taking those

    mental breaks has been something that

    has really helped me as an educator like

    when working with drum lines like I have

    a very focused mind in that I can go for

    hours without taking a break and like

    not even realize it and so I would set

    my phone alarm when working with drum

    lines like oh it's time for a five or

    ten minute break or whatever because I'd

    notice like their eyes glaze over like

    after playing the same thing for like 30

    minutes straight they're just like

    mentally done okay let's take a break

    let's just stretch so tell some goofy

    stories whatever I think that is

    extremely valuable like in the classroom

    or even like you're saying with adults

    with the PD that we do at boot up we

    also take the Pomodoro approach and that

    we will schedule in time for those

    breaks because it's hard to go three or

    six hours or however long the PD is and

    like not take those mental breaks and do

    a little reset right yeah and I'm

    grateful for all the Early Childhood

    Elementary folks who do those brain

    breaks and they like we're just gonna

    get up and wiggle for two minutes wiggle

    you know do a dance to talk like at the

    middle school high school level it was a

    shock when I saw a teacher say all right

    we finished this here's your 10 minute

    break do whatever you want to do with it

    pull out your phones look on Tick Tock

    scroll and all the students are like

    wait what we can pull out a phone like

    yeah 10 minutes put the timer up and the

    teacher just gave them 10 minutes and

    they were like and then when it was time

    to go back into whatever their next

    lesson was you could see them paying

    more attention and they really

    appreciated that so yeah I like that

    idea yeah and then if they are like

    pulling out their phones it's like oh

    and now's not the time for that right

    now we're focusing can you wait another

    you want yeah if I just give an answer

    that's different one of the things I've

    talked about on here is in computer

    science education there's this tendency

    to want to integrate because there's

    already so many standards there's so

    many subjects that are being taught in

    the day we don't need to add one more

    and so that the way that computer

    science is being integrated is like

    trying to be as convenient as possible

    but it does like a bit of a disservice

    to the field and like to what students

    are learning because you're just kind of

    skimming on the surface just hoping to

    like check off the standards and so what

    I would like more research on is like an

    actual comparison of like what do not

    only students learn in different

    approaches to integration for computer

    science but also like how do they feel

    afterwards like would they have rather

    had a computer science Standalone class

    or would they have rather have

    integrated it in math or science or

    whatever it makes sense makes a lot of

    sense what's something that you're

    working on that a listener might be able

    to help with to be honest with you I'm

    not working so much right now I've got a

    lot of the courses I was doing a lot of

    the workshops and the trainings and so

    all summer it has been just that one go

    go workshops go Keynotes go go go and so

    I'll finally get a break middle of

    September and then that will be when I

    say okay let me read now let's work to

    something so it's kind of like a

    football you know football's gearing up

    and they've had their training camp and

    then after training camp they play the

    games kind of like that where I've been

    playing the game in my off season or my

    Slow Down Season my off peak Seasons

    come in middle of September and once

    when that comes I can breathe just a

    little and say now what does the

    research say how can I best help schools

    blah blah blah blah yep yeah no that's

    relatable but it's funny how a lot of

    people who aren't in education are like

    yeah but you get Summers off like it's

    easy and it's like in a five-week period

    I was home for three days like that's

    literally me I counted 11 from May to

    this week here I've been home 11 days

    total so if I live in Oklahoma we have a

    regional airport so I'm gonna have to go

    to like one of the hubs to get to

    wherever I'm going yeah and so a lot of

    late nights getting wherever I need to

    go and a lot of late nights coming home

    but this is the work that I love to do

    this is the work that I've been wanting

    to do my entire life yeah once when I

    saw like I said I saw Dr juanza kajuku

    and I was like you do this for a living

    you can inspire people and teach them

    strategy what yeah yeah so I'm grateful

    for the 2 A.M Landing in Boston just to

    wake up at six to prep and get ready for

    the school at seven I'm game for that oh

    yeah

    it'll just hibernate for a little bit

    do you have any questions for myself or

    for the field my question would be for

    you is like how are you growing your

    podcast more my wife and I we've been

    doing a podcast and started from covet

    and we were doing really good like the

    first four or five episodes because we

    were able to post it on social media and

    was getting all of the views and then

    social media change algorithms and now

    it's gone from like drastic numbers like

    we had 500 600 views to like 40. and now

    they want me to pay to boost this

    podcast

    I think that it's so unfair I don't want

    to pay to play that's going to be my

    work September october-ish like do I

    need to reformat it we try to do all the

    recording and the filming the first two

    or three months of the year 24 episodes

    total and then just spread them out you

    know do all the recording do all the

    editing then spread it out throughout

    the year but I was discouraged to be

    honest with you because I thought we

    were training upward and then those

    algorithms hit you know I was like my

    own Mama didn't even know that it was

    posted like wait wait a minute that

    would be my question to you like how are

    you what things strategies have you done

    to kind of help push more there's a

    professor at Stanford named Andrew

    huberman and so he's a neuroscience

    professor and so one of the things that

    he actually does is he'll do interviews

    like this but then he'll do solo

    episodes where it's like a deep dive on

    here is what the literature says about

    sleep or here's what the literature says

    about

    um building muscle things like that and

    so it's just a solo episode where he

    just talks about different perspectives

    and like being a researcher he kind of

    unpacks what does this mean for you as

    an individual how is this helpful at all

    he's got like 1.31 million Subs right

    now

    um looking at him on YouTube so he's

    doing really well but what's interesting

    is that's actually the approach I've

    been doing with this podcast is it

    generally alternates between an episode

    with a guest or multiple guests or an

    episode on my own where I will unpack

    Apollo Freddy's pedagogy the oppressed I

    did like one episode for each of the

    four chapters and talk about hey this

    book was written over 50 years ago but

    what does this mean now with like the

    black lives matter movement that was

    like going on specifically with two

    years ago and talking about what does

    this mean for your classroom how does

    this relate to current times Etc I've

    done other ones like hey Anders Erickson

    he's the sports psychologist who talks

    specifically about deliberate practice

    and the use of that and like sports

    psychologists love to cite K Anders

    Erickson the 10 000 hour rule has been

    like a tribute to him Etc and so I read

    off like here are some of the main

    findings of his work and like what does

    this actually mean for an educator like

    if we want to develop expertise what

    does this look like if you only see a

    kid for a year or what if you're like

    when I was teaching music I would see

    kids for K through six so I'd have seven

    years with him how can I try and teach

    in a way that develops at expertise so

    I'd focus on that that makes it so that

    one I can get both current literature

    and like the classics in education and

    kind of reframe it in a way that is

    useful to people who don't have time to

    actually be able to read that and it

    makes it so I can have that buffer and

    not have to have like a new guest every

    single week which is why when I sent you

    that email I'm like hey we can wait as

    long as you want like it's totally cool

    with me because every week I can always

    record a solo episode and that's to be

    expected so that helps having different

    guests on also help because then they'll

    share it with their circles and then

    that kind of gives me like new people to

    potentially reach out to who might not

    have heard this but what I'll say I've

    had the biggest success with is actually

    short form content so YouTube shorts is

    um was their response to tick tock and

    it was like you have to have like one

    minute in vertical format if you can

    create that kind of content like I've

    been doing a lot of gaming and drumming

    shorts and if I look at my Channel right

    now in the last 48 hours I've had 19

    have been from the shorts and I've

    gained like 300 Subs in in the last

    little bit because of all of these views

    and whatnot so if you can repackage

    excerpts of what you're already doing in

    longer form content and then put that on

    Instagram Tick Tock YouTube shorts

    whatever that can make it so that it

    points back to the actual longer form

    content I was doing short form for the

    summer and like you said but then I just

    quit part of it was because I was like

    man these views I ain't doing it for the

    views but my goodness that's a drastic

    difference so okay but I've never ever

    considered putting the short form on

    YouTube it makes all the sense in the

    world if you go that route you just have

    to have somewhere in the title or the

    description

    um hashtag shorts and then it just has

    to be in vertical format under a minute

    and then it will automatically kick it

    into the shorts feed and so that sends

    it to people who are not your subs it

    sends it just like anywhere depending on

    whatever the topic is and so that's like

    why I'm able to get all those views is

    mainly because like the top three that I

    can see right here three thousand for

    this one three thousand for that one

    were shorts and it's just like I don't

    know 30 second clip okay let's do 100

    typical day so then where might people

    go to connect with you and any

    organizations that you might work with

    absolutely I am one of two Andre daddies

    in this world the other one is from New

    York and he does media too and he's a

    musician which I thought was really cool

    I tweeted him one day it's like dude hey

    if I live in New York lunch only Andre

    daddy

    [Music]

    a-n-d-r-e-d-a-u-g-h-t-y whatever your

    social is I am right there if you love

    YouTube content I also have a YouTube

    channel where I share Out video clips

    and then how you can use those inside

    your classroom I call it the real lesson

    within r-e-e-l lesson within so like

    we'll for example we'll take a clip from

    Moana and we'll say here's three things

    that you can teach and you can learn

    from this small clip and then show that

    clip to you where then you can use it in

    your class with your students another

    thing I do on YouTube is called laugh a

    little because we as teachers we don't

    laugh enough throughout the day and so I

    try to find those exciting moments in

    education and share them out with you

    all as well and then lastly my wife and

    I we also have a podcast it is called

    see what had it happen and we uplift

    stories The Good the Bad and everything

    in between in education and so we just

    finished wrapping season two they'll be

    released throughout the rest of the year

    we'll get for season three so Andre

    dowdy.org and I'm the only but there's

    only two of us Andre doughties all over

    social media and with that that

    concludes this week's episode of the

    cska podcast thank you so much for

    listening I hope you enjoyed this

    conversation with Andre I know I

    certainly did and I hope you consider

    sharing with somebody else who might

    benefit from this conversation or

    leaving a review on whatever app you're

    listening to the song stay tuned next

    week for another episode until then I

    hope you're all staying safe and are

    having a wonderful week

Guest Bio

Over the past nineteen years, Andre Daughty (pronounced Daugh like how) has established himself as a highly-regarded urban educator from Oklahoma City, OK. As an elementary school teacher, he helped to improve test scores at a low-performing school in need of improvement to state recognition. That year, he taught a class of over fifty fourth grade students by himself. He continued to serve in education in capacities of leadership, coaching and as a professor.

Andre has been a public speaker, delivered conference and program keynotes, professional development workshops, parenting seminars and student assemblies. He enjoys sharing strategies to create and build culture within a school and organization, ADaughty-5528bringing awareness on today’s generation, understanding and developing attitudes of at-risk student populations, and motivating excellence in the classroom and school with students of color, particularly young black male students. He takes the complicated and makes it simple to understand as he pulls from his experiences in education to take his audience on an emotional and humorous journey. His engaging, yet practical style has earned him invitations as speaker in various arenas. Andre’s most important goal is to allow the listener to see things from a different perspective. He does this by helping to achieve personal and professional goals in practical ways that produce reflection, then change. His ability to connect with people from every walk of life allows him to deliver hilarious, yet, thought-provoking presentations, workshops and experiences.

Andre Daughty is married to his wife, Danielle, and is the father of their two children, Jaiden and Cambria. He earned his B.S. degree in Elementary Education from Langston University and his M.A. degree in Educational Leadership from the University of Central Oklahoma.

Resources/Links Relevant to This Episode

  • Other podcast episodes that were mentioned or are relevant to this episode

    • A DREAM job with Addison Lilholt

      • In this interview with Addison Lilholt, we discuss Addison’s DREAM job, the importance of students having fun through meaningful learning experiences, lessons learned from remote teaching, the importance of mental breaks when learning/teaching, recommendations for getting started with CS, the intersections of CS and environmental sciences, creating an arcade cabinet to explore engineering and CS, being open about iterating on abilities as an educator, and so much more.

    • Connecting with and Listening to Students with Dominick Sanders

      • In this interview with Dominick Sanders, we discuss the importance of connecting with and listening to students, the impact of being a positive role model for kids, considering equity for individuals and across the entire state of South Carolina, what Dominick learned through their experience with Xposure STEM, Dominick’s plan for improving CS in South Carolina, Dominick’s experience with CSTA’s Equity Fellowship, how Dominick continues to learn and grow as a CS educator, thinking through intersectionality in relation to representation, and so much more.

    • CS for All Teachers with Melissa Rasberry

      • In this interview with Melissa Rasberry, we discuss making educational lemonade out of lemons, using technology to collaborate in virtual learning communities, how people are learning differently through online communities, CS for All Teachers, suggestions for using different social media platforms to connect with other educators, and much more.

    • Computing Educational Activities Involving People Rather Than Things Appeal More to Women (Recruitment Perspective)

      • In this interview with Dominick Sanders, we discuss the importance of connecting with and listening to students, the impact of being a positive role model for kids, considering equity for individuals and across the entire state of South Carolina, what Dominick learned through their experience with Xposure STEM, Dominick’s plan for improving CS in South Carolina, Dominick’s experience with CSTA’s Equity Fellowship, how Dominick continues to learn and grow as a CS educator, thinking through intersectionality in relation to representation, and so much more.

    • How to Get Started with Computer Science Education

      • In this episode I provide a framework for how districts and educators can get started with computer science education for free.

    • Increasing Diversity in K-12 Computer Science: Strategies from the Field

      • In this episode I unpack Goode’s (2008) publication titled “Increasing diversity in K-12 computer science: Strategies from the field," which provides suggestions for educators who are interested in increasing the diversity of their CS classes or programs.

    • INTech Camp for Girls with Khalia Braswell

      • In this interview with Khalia Braswell, we discuss the lack of representation in education, improving equity and inclusion in CS education, what Khalia has learned with INTech Camp for Girls, how Khalia iterates on her own abilities, the importance of self care, our thoughts on the future of CS education, and much more.

    • Lessons Learned From CSTA Chapters Across the United States with Jason Bohrer

      • In this interview with Jason Bohrer, we discuss lessons learned coming into computer science education from another subject area, lessons learned working with CSTA chapters across the country (and during a pandemic), how CSTA has impacted the field and continues to evolve over time, how Jason continued to learn about CS without getting burned out, considering equity and inclusion when recruiting for CS education, CSTA’s new CS Teacher Standards, and much more.

    • Making Meaningful Connections with Jean Ryoo

      • In this interview with Jean Ryoo, we discuss equity as an evolving idea, what an ideal CS class looks like, collaborating and learning through research-practitioner partnerships (RPPs), the importance of examining our own biases, the importance of community, working through burnout/depression/anxiety, helping students through depression and suicidal ideation, the problems with whitewashing in education, and so much more.

    • Pedagogy of the Oppressed

      • Chapter one

        • This episode is the start of a miniseries that unpacks Paulo Freire’s (1970) book “Pedagogy of the Oppressed.” This particular episode unpacks chapter 1, which discusses how oppressors maintain control over the oppressed. Following unpacking scholarship episodes discuss what this looks like in education and how educators can adopt a “pedagogy of the oppressed” to break cycles of oppression.

      • Chapter two

        • This episode is episode two of a miniseries that unpacks Paulo Freire’s (1970) book “Pedagogy of the Oppressed.” This particular episode unpacks chapter 2, which discusses the “banking” approach to education that assumes students are repositories of information, and then proposes a liberatory approach to education that focuses on posing problems that students and teachers collaboratively solve. If you haven’t listened to the discussion on the first chapter, click here.

      • Chapter three

        • This episode is episode three of a miniseries that unpacks Paulo Freire’s (1970) book “Pedagogy of the Oppressed.” This particular episode unpacks chapter 3, which discusses the importance of dialogue when engaging in liberatory practices. This episode builds off the previous unpacking scholarship episodes on chapter one and chapter two, so make sure you listen to those episodes before jumping in here.

      • Chapter four

        • This episode is the final episode of a miniseries that unpacks Paulo Freire’s (1970) book “Pedagogy of the Oppressed.” This particular episode unpacks chapter 4, which synthesizes the concepts introduced in the previous chapters and discusses the difference between anti-dialogical and dialogical practices in education (and at large). This episode builds off the previous unpacking scholarship episodes on chapter one, chapter two, and chapter three so make sure you listen to those episodes before jumping in here.

    • The Role of Deliberate Practice in the Acquisition of Expert Performance

      • In this episode I unpack Ericsson, Krampe, and Tesch-Römer’s (1993) publication titled “The role of deliberate practice in the acquisition of expert performance,” which debunks the notion of innate abilities within a domain and describes the role of deliberate practice in achieving expert performance.

    • More episodes related to equity

    • More episodes related to representation

    • More episodes related to self care

    • More episodes related to social media

    • All other episodes

  • Tim Grover’s book, Winning: the Unforgiving Race to Greatness

  • Listen to the Chick Corea album, Friends

  • Andre Huberman’s podcast that I mentioned

  • Connect with Andre

  • Find other CS educators and resources by using the #CSK8 hashtag on Twitter

More Content

InterviewJared O'LearyRepresentation, Equity, Self care, Social mediaComment